RunningAHEAD - Topic: First Marathon - Too Tough? Too late...

First Marathon - Too Tough? Too late... (Read 631 times)

Mikeb4789 view log	posted: 8/13/2008 at 1:32 PM modified: 8/13/2008 at 1:33 PM
	Well in anticipation of sticking with this thing called running and becoming addicted to it. I've signed up for (and already paid for) my first marathon to get my first state done . Though my training didn't progress as quickly as I planned and after doing more research on the marathon found out it is a very tough one. My original (aggresive) goal was to break 4 hours based on my (only) HM time of 1:45:52. Though I had a problem walking for a few days after that (it was almost all downhill). My goal now is to finish (though I say that now I know my stuborness will still push me to break it). I think for all of my shorter long runs (10-12 miles) I will try and work hills though I am going to be down in Mississippi for a month work so that may be tough. One benefit of that being my first marathon is that it should be an easy PR to break! Thoughts on how to run the race? I know slow...
	2008 Goals : • ~~Drop to 160 #s and hold steady around that weight~~ • Run 1000 miles • ~~Run 1st half marathon -~~ Spearfish Canyon Half Marathon • ~~Run 1st marathon~~ - Mt Rushmore Marathon

ʇuǝɹʇ view log ʎǝʞuoɯ ʎʞunɟ	posted: 8/13/2008 at 1:38 PM
	What marathon is this?
	noʎ ɥʇıʍ ǝq ʎǝʞuoɯ ǝɥʇ ʎɐɯ

kencamet view log	posted: 8/13/2008 at 3:00 PM
	Mt. Rushmore? I'd make sure that some of your longer long runs also have some component of hills to them - that looks like a TOUGH marathon! I'd also make sure I run the first half much slower than the second half. If you don't feel like you're going WAY too slow then you're going too fast.
	2009 Goals: 3000 miles 18:35 5K 39:00 10K

Mikeb4789 view log	posted: 8/13/2008 at 3:03 PM modified: 8/13/2008 at 3:03 PM
	Hmm.. guess I left out the part about which marathon it is. It is the Mt Rushmore Marathon on 4 October 2008.
	2008 Goals : • ~~Drop to 160 #s and hold steady around that weight~~ • Run 1000 miles • ~~Run 1st half marathon -~~ Spearfish Canyon Half Marathon • ~~Run 1st marathon~~ - Mt Rushmore Marathon

halldor54	posted: 8/13/2008 at 4:42 PM modified: 8/13/2008 at 4:43 PM
	That's a nice 5 mile climb around mile 14. I'd practice some long steady hill climbs of about 4-5 miles (if you can find them near your home) after putting in 5-6 miles of rolling hills/varied elevations. Come to Boone, NC if you'd like some long (and sometimes steep) hill climbs! Good luck! You can make it happen! P.S. Mile 9 looks pretty gnarly, too!

JakeKnight view log	posted: 8/13/2008 at 4:48 PM
	Forget the time goal. Run lots and lots of hills of every kind. Try to get a run or two in on the actual course, if at all possible. At least drive it. Memorize that elevation chart. Have some strategy for the hills - where to go easy, where to recover, where to attack. During a race like that - walking is strategy. Walk where it is smarter to walk. Especially early. (Brief aside: shut up, Tanya). On the plus side, that course has one big advantage: right where it'll start getting really hard, it's literally all downhill, almost 1000 feet in the final 10k. That's pretty sweet. Compare it to something like the Palos Verdes Marathon, where the hill starts up at mile 20 and doesn't stop climbing for four miles or so. 14 to 18 is just going to suck. Have fun. Walk some of the hill at 19. Coast home. Looks like a blast.
	E-mail: JakeKnight2002@aol.com -----------------------------

srlopez Guy running in pink	posted: 8/13/2008 at 7:10 PM modified: 8/13/2008 at 7:11 PM
	(side note, my PR was at Palos Verdes for awhile. True story.) That last downhill in Mt Rushmore is a bit of an asskicker. It's nice to have a gravity assist in the last miles of a marathon, but Rushmore has some fairly steep sections throughout and your quads will be tired when you hit that downhill - and shredded at the end. You use your quads to climb when it is steep, and unfortunately, your quads come into play as brakes when you descend (this is why people curse downhill races). Also, unless they've changed the course a ton... and they have diddled with it at least a little... some of the footing is a bit obnoxious along the way. The area is pretty in that Badlands sorta way. I enjoyed it. Note that they run a different marathon at the same time. Crazy Horse. It has a different start. Race day can be confusing .
	With realistic Pants-on-Fire action!

Mikeb4789 view log	posted: 8/17/2008 at 7:01 PM
	Well, ran 20 miles today. I did the first 10 miles of the course (started at a small parking lot that provided a good view of Washington's head) and the turned around and came back those same 10 miles. It was my longest run to date (16 was the longest before this). Overall it went well. It started to get a bit tough at mile 17 but really not that bad. I could have knocked out the last 6 if I wanted to. I feel much better about the marathon. My time for the 20 was 3:38:32. So I could have a shot at breaking 4 during the race. On my 24 mile long run in two weeks I'll hit some long hills and train for the second half. 47 more days of training till race day!
	2008 Goals : • ~~Drop to 160 #s and hold steady around that weight~~ • Run 1000 miles • ~~Run 1st half marathon -~~ Spearfish Canyon Half Marathon • ~~Run 1st marathon~~ - Mt Rushmore Marathon

heelgrad92

view log

posted: 8/17/2008 at 9:57 PM

Quote from Mikeb4789 on 8/17/2008 at 7:01 PM:

Well, ran 20 miles today. I did the first 10 miles of the course (started at a small parking lot that provided a good view of Washington's head) and the turned around and came back those same 10 miles. It was my longest run to date (16 was the longest before this). Overall it went well. It started to get a bit tough at mile 17 but really not that bad. I could have knocked out the last 6 if I wanted to. I feel much better about the marathon. My time for the 20 was 3:38:32. So I could have a shot at breaking 4 during the race. On my 24 mile long run in two weeks I'll hit some long hills and train for the second half. 47 more days of training till race day!

I have several thoughts after reading your post and looking at your training log:

(1)- Given your current mileage, race times and the hilliness of the course, it will take divine intervention to get you to the finish in less than 4 hours. If you push for that you will be in serious pain at the end.

(2)- Do not run more than 20 miles in your long run. You are running too few miles each week to run the 26 miler you plan three weeks out from the race, and you are going to end up injured or too fatigued when the marathon comes up. Seriously, just three weeks ago your entire week you put in half the distance you plan on packing into one run, doesn't that feel a little nuts? The weeks before that weren't exactly high mileage either.

(3)- You can run a 4 hour marathon, but not on this course with your training. I think a 4:30 is a more realistic goal, and that is only if you forget about trying to do a 26 miler three weeks before the big race.

jsobo119

view log

...Frosty...

posted: 8/17/2008 at 11:49 PM

Quote from heelgrad92 on 8/17/2008 at 9:57 PM:

You are running too few miles each week to run the 26 miler you plan three weeks out from the race, and you are going to end up injured or too fatigued when the marathon comes up.

I agree... it is my opinion that your long run shouldn't exceed 50% of your weekly miles... and you should have a mid week run that is at least 1/2 the distance of you long run...

If I do that then the wheels don't get squeeky and try to fall off...

Mikeb4789 view log	posted: 8/18/2008 at 1:37 AM modified: 8/18/2008 at 2:11 AM
	Hmm... I was going of the race calculator at http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/Running%20University/Article%201/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm. The calculator says that based off my HM of 1:45:52 I should be able to do the marathon in 3:43:16 and my 5K time (from back in April) shows that I can do it in 3:59:20. For the training, I have been following the intermediate marathon program at cool running. http://www.coolrunning.com/engine/2/2_4/128.shtml None of them have the distance of a mid week run equal to half the long run distance. It also has me running 26 miles three weeks before. Now I will admit that I fell off a few weeks on the long runs and was playing catch-up and probably running a bit more then I should. Is that training program totally off? Is the calculator wrong? Please don't take this the wrong way. I know I am pushing a bit hard but I really did think that I was going OK based on those two things.
	2008 Goals : • ~~Drop to 160 #s and hold steady around that weight~~ • Run 1000 miles • ~~Run 1st half marathon -~~ Spearfish Canyon Half Marathon • ~~Run 1st marathon~~ - Mt Rushmore Marathon

havanarnr view log	posted: 8/18/2008 at 2:32 AM modified: 8/18/2008 at 2:33 AM
	Well, I'm pretty sure McMillan's estimates are for a "normal" marathon (whatever that is), not for one of the tougher courses in the country... Just sayin'... Bill
	Goal HM under 2:00:00

runnerclay view log	posted: 8/18/2008 at 2:44 AM modified: 8/18/2008 at 2:44 AM
	Did you do the 20 on a hilly course or on an Air Force base? I have a feeling you are not going to heed anyones advice. 26 miles 365 ft will hurt.Good luck!
	Run until the trail runs out 2009 TARGET PILATES 5 TIMES A WEEK 2009 RUN MIN. 4 TIMES A WEEK 2009 TARGET 40/40

Mikeb4789 view log	posted: 8/18/2008 at 2:54 AM modified: 8/18/2008 at 3:01 AM
	See...I knew it would come across wrong. I am asking for advice. Otherwise I would not post. Quote from runnerclay on 8/18/2008 at 2:44 AM: Did you do the 20 on a hilly course Yes I did run it on hills. If you look at my post I said I ran the first 10 miles of the course. Not any hills, but the exact marathon I will be doing. And then I ran those 10 miles again back to where i started. 20 miles of hills. Quote from runnerclay on 8/18/2008 at 2:44 AM: I have a feeling you are not going to heed anyones advice. 26 miles 365 ft will hurt.Good luck! I wasn't arguing against the advice. I was wondering if the training program I was using was incorrect or if the calculator I was using is wrong. Does anyone have any thoughts on that? If I ran a HM in 1:45 with not much difficulty and sprinted at the end, the calculator makes it seem like I would be OK during the marathon. Am I wrong in thinking this? Quote from runnerclay on 8/18/2008 at 2:44 AM: Did you do the 20 on a hilly course or on an Air Force base? And what does an Air Force Base have to do with this?
	2008 Goals : • ~~Drop to 160 #s and hold steady around that weight~~ • Run 1000 miles • ~~Run 1st half marathon -~~ Spearfish Canyon Half Marathon • ~~Run 1st marathon~~ - Mt Rushmore Marathon

Ennay view log Bif! Bam! Pow!	posted: 8/18/2008 at 3:10 AM modified: 8/18/2008 at 3:11 AM
	The calculators in general depend on a higher training volume than you have, but regardless, they are not designed to be used with a course like you outlined. Plus you are taking your time off a "mostly downhill" HM. That is a hilly mofo and you should go in to it expecting to be slower than predicted. 1) because it is hilly - and at significant altitude. 2) because its your first 3) because even with the program you are following, you admit you are a little behind and playing catch up 4) and most importantly - if you go out for the first half on 4 hour pace you will most likely be very very unhappy around mile 20 or so. There are a gazillion training programs out there. "Correct" is an impossible definition. There is lots of disagreement on the "best way". But I think you will find, in general, most of the people on here who have run marathons reasonably injury free will tell you about the same thing. The midweek mileage you have planned is awfully low for the long run distances. Its like trying to put the roof on the house before you build the foundation. I would agree with most of the posters that you would probably be better served capping your long run at 20, 22 at the most and spending more effort on some of your midweek runs. On the other hand I also know lots of us give out this advice because we ran our first marathon on too few miles. Just trying to save you some of the pain we experienced.
	Beware the Pink Boxing Gloves of DOOM! "It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds" - Captain Hammer 2009 Goals New PR's in 5K 10K HM M I failed the 12 minute run in 11th grade...