'We were bored and didn’t have anything to do, so we decided to kill somebody.' (Read 567 times)

JimR


     

    Risk factors of cars....

    When cars are being used by the wrong people or at the wrong time (impaired due to drugs, alcohol, sleep depravation), they can be used as a weapon that can kill and destroy.

     

    Risk factors of guns....

    When guns are being used by the wrong people or at the wrong time (impaired due to drugs, alcohol, sleep depravation), they can be used as a weapon that can kill and destroy.

     

    For both products, they can be used for good.

    For both products, they can be put in the hands of bad people or people who should not have them at that particular point in their life.

     

    I didn't ask for a description of risk factors.  All things have associated risk factors.  I'm asking what one has to do with the other.  What specificaly does car associated risk factors have to do with that of guns?

    Gator eye


      10,228 killed by drunk drivers per year (2010)

      31,224 killed by gun violence per year (2010)

       

       

      http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-driving-statistics-2010.html

       

       

      http://www.thesuitmagazine.com/top-stories/21077-gun-violence-in-america.html

       

      It's ok to have random road blocks for drunk drivers but it is unconstitutional to profile and have stop and frisk laws.


      Interval Junkie --Nobby

        Personally, I can't wait for Personal Tactical Nukes become available via Mail-Order.

        2014 Goals:  sub-3 Marathon 

        Current Status 06/19: Pelvic stress-fracture = 6-weeks of no running.


        Feeling the growl again

          10,228 killed by drunk drivers per year (2010)

          31,224 killed by gun violence per year (2010)

           

           

          http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-driving-statistics-2010.html

           

           

          http://www.thesuitmagazine.com/top-stories/21077-gun-violence-in-america.html

           

          It's ok to have random road blocks for drunk drivers but it is unconstitutional to profile and have stop and frisk laws.

           

          Great.  Total numbers.  Now map that to geography and I'm sure it will paint a very different picture for the personal risk to likely every single person posting to this forum.  The vast majority of shootings are in restricted areas within major cities...the real risk to the average American not living in the ghetto is quite small.  Conversely drunk and distracted drivers are virtually everywhere.  On average, those drivers pose a more real risk to you personally.

           

          If you think randomly stopping and frisking people who have done nothing to generate probable cause is a good way to reduce crime, let's also have random home searches.  I bet that would reduce crime too.  If you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear, right?

           

          Freedom does not come without cost.  Thinking that giving up your freedoms will guarantee your safety is a pipe dream.

           

          If one wants to get twisted about the number of shootings let's get to the root causes driving those high numbers of shootings in certain geographic areas.  But somehow many, many people getting killed in those areas on a daily basis is hardly newsworthy...likely because it doesn't affect most people.  But then one or a few people getting shot in a more average setting...like someone out for an innocent jog...is flashed on national news because it strikes people personally as it could have been them.

          "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

           

          ShuffleFaster


            Here's some statistics from CDC:

             

            Firearm Deaths:

             

            http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6230a1.htm?s_cid=mm6230a1_w

             

            Some highlights:

             

            "During 2009–2010, a total of 22,571 firearm homicides and 38,126 firearm suicides occurred among U.S. residents"

             

            "All-ages firearm homicide rates during 2009–2010 varied widely by MSA, ranging from 1.1 to 19.0 per 100,000 residents per year (Table). The rate for all MSAs combined was 4.3, compared with a national rate of 3.7. This represents a decrease from 2006–2007, when the combined MSA rate was 5.2 and the national rate was 4.2."

             

            "During 2009–2010, homicide was the 15th leading cause of death (all ages) in the United States and the second leading cause among persons aged 10–19 years; a firearm injury was the underlying cause in 68% of all homicides and in 83% of homicides among youths (1). The findings in this report show that despite declining firearm homicide rates in most large metropolitan areas, rates collectively remained higher in these areas compared with the United States overall. Residents of the 50 largest MSAs represented 54% of the U.S. population during 2009–2010 (unchanged from 2006–2007) but accounted for 64% of firearm homicide victims nationally (somewhat below the percentage for 2006–2007). These MSAs accounted for 70% of the national firearm homicide total (2,368 of 3,397) among persons aged 10–19 years."

             

            As far as motor vehicle accidents (as opposed to the subset of drunk drivers):

             

            http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6128a2.htm?s_cid=mm6128a2_w

             

            Highlights:

             

            "In 2009, a total of 34,485 MVC deaths were reported among U.S. residents, and 22% of those who died were aged 15–24 years. MVCs were the leading cause of death for that age group, which represents approximately 14% of the total U.S. population"

             

            "The overall MVC death rate for all 50 MSAs combined was 8.2 per 100,000 residents, compared with a national rate of 11.1 (Table). Among the 50 MSAs, rates ranged from 4.4 to 17.8, and 37 (74%) had rates lower than the overall national rate."

             

            "MVCs among teens and young adults (i.e., persons aged 15–24 years) are of particular concern because they represent the leading cause of death in this age group (1). Although MVC death rates for this age group generally were lower in MSAs than for the nation, they nonetheless were routinely higher than overall rates within individual MSAs. For all MSAs combined, the MVC death rate among persons aged 15–24 years was 13.0, which is 59% higher than the combined overall rate for MSAs of 8.2. Well-known risk factors (e.g., inexperience, lack of seat belt use, driving with teen passengers, and alcohol-impaired driving) for teens and young adults likely contributed to the higher MVC death rates observed for this age group."

             

            ------------------------------

             

            The point that the gun v. car folks are making is that both are tools that can have dangerous consequences if used incorrectly--yet, one tool is emotionally debated and vilified while the other is not.

             

            The data show that while deaths from gun homicide and MVC's are going down, you are more likely to die in an MVC than be killed by someone else with a gun.  However, if you throw in suicides, the numbers of those of dying by gun exceed that by motor vehicle.

             

            Spaniel is also correct:  you odds of dying by gun vary widely by where you live.  The odds of dying by car vary as well depending on location, but not as dramatically.  (See the reports cited above).

             

            Finally, to put things a little bit of overall perspective:

             

            Percentage data on causes of death:

            Males 2009:

            1) Heart disease 25.2
            2) Cancer 24.4
            3) Unintentional injuries 6.2
            4) Chronic lower respiratory diseases 5.3
            5) Stroke 4.3
            6) Diabetes 2.9
            7) Suicide 2.4
            8) Influenza and pneumonia 2.1
            9) Kidney disease 2.0
            10) Alzheimer's disease

            2.0

             

            Females, 2009

            1) Heart    disease 24.0
            2) Cancer 22.2
            3) Stroke 6.3
            4) Chronic lower respiratory diseases 5.9
            5) Alzheimer's disease 4.5
            6) Unintentional injuries 3.5
            7) Diabetes 2.8
            8)  Influenza and pneumonia 2.3
            9)  Kidney disease 2.0
            10) Septicemia 1.6

             

            And, yes, these numbers are just overall percentages.  Causes vary depending on ethnicity as well.

              Someone give me just ONE good reason why any private citizen NEEDS one.

               

              Zombies. Duh.

              When it’s all said and done, will you have said more than you’ve done?

              FatSweatyBullDog


                Why does it matter that more people die in motor vehicle accidents than being murdered by means of a gun?

                We don't stop trying to find cures for cancer because more people die of heart disease.

                 

                Shouldn't we be working for sensible ways to prevent murder and car crashes?


                Needs more cowbell!

                   

                  Zombies. Duh.

                   

                  Too noisy (will attract more hordes) and worthless once ammo has been exhausted.  Crowbar and cross-bow are far better options. Tongue

                  I shoot pretty things! ~

                  '14 Goals:

                  • 6 duathlons (1 Olympic distance)

                  • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)

                  The Mc


                    The point that the gun v. car folks are making is that both are tools that can have dangerous consequences if used incorrectly--yet, one tool is emotionally debated and vilified while the other is not.

                     

                    I think we can all agree, that the purpose of a gun, as a tool, is to shot things (targets, animals, people).  That is its main purpose.  The purpose of a car is transportation (humans, goods, etc.).  So the guns vs. cars argument is somewhat flawed to begin with.  I really do not have a strong opinion either way in terms of gun control, I just think the guns vs. cars argument is rather silly.  Guns vs swords would be better . . . . maybe guns vs guillotines....

                    Papa don't take no mess.

                      Personally, I can't wait for Personal Tactical Nukes become available via Mail-Order.

                       

                      You can't even order pepper spray off Amazon, notwithstanding the fact that golfers are walking around with clubs!  They don't even bother to conceal them.  I hope you don't verify this the hard way.

                      "If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus

                      jimmyb


                      port-a-bella-potty

                        We live in a constitutional republic and under the rule of law. The constitution can be changed.  Treat yourselves to the Ken Burn's documentary on prohibition, and you'll see how grass roots organizations can grow in influence and get a new amendment tagged on to it.  There seems to be no resolve to a gun control argument, especially when the government is restricted from impinging on your freedom to own one and guns are so intertwined with the fabric of our society. Still, I think the argument is good to have.

                         

                        The people still have the power in this country, and if they really had the resolve, they could change the constitution, and remove this restriction on government, and have guns outlawed. What I would be curious to see is how gun owners would react, especially those who use the constitution in almost a biblical way to justify gun ownership. Would they say "well, that's the constitution. You can have my guns"? Would there be a counter political movement to reinstate the restriction on government? Would they not give up their guns, and fight back with them? With a war being a real possibility, are those who support gun-elimination willing to go that far?

                         

                        My personal take on the issue is that I see a lot of fear. People are afraid that they're going to send their kid off to school to get shot (my parents never worried about me getting shot at school). It just happened ten minutes from my home here in Atlanta yesterday. People are afraid they might get blown away watching a movie at a theater for no reason. They're afraid of a thief with a gun invading their home. Women are afraid of men with guns who will kidnap, rape and murder them. People are terrorized by these things. Forget Al Qaeda, we're doing a real number on ourselves. People with guns are afraid. They're afraid of home invasion. They're afraid that they'll find themselves in a movie theater in front of some nut with a gun, with no protection. Women with guns are afraid of rapists and murderers. Everyone is in the same state of fear about the same things. Guns symbolize this fear. Some think getting rid of the symbol will get rid of the fear. Others keep the symbol in order to feel safe.

                         

                        If you look at all the past events involving gun deaths, what is the real problem behind them? The majority are gang-related. What's behind that? What keeps the gangs going? Poverty. Lack of parental guidance, education, and moral training. Alcohol and drugs.

                         

                        Look at the cases of mentally ill and sociopaths with guns. What's behind that? We give mentally ill kids these drugs like a band-aid and let them go free. We don't want them to be stigmatized and labeled as nuts. We want them to have fulfilling lives. And it works, generally. But some fall through the cracks. They shouldn't be free. They should be in a mental-health facility. All sociopaths aren't killers. Some become politicians, own businesses, etc., but some do go the route of serial or masse killing. Is sociopathy a mental illness? Or are the ones who kill just sick sociopaths? Supposedly, sociopathy starts very young. Should we be devising ways to identify sociopaths, and thus separating them from society early on while they're children? Especially if there is no cure for it?

                         

                        A portion of gun deaths are alcohol related. Someone kills their friend or spouse, deliberately or not, in a drunken stupor or blackout. Maybe they're an alcoholic, maybe a binge drinker, maybe it was their first time getting drunk. Alcohol abuse is a huge problem in this country. If we didn't drink or use drugs, a lot of society's problems would be solved. But now we get back to the constitution and prohibition again. People will still drink and use, despite laws against it. They say alcohol use dropped 10-20% during prohibition. There must have been at least a little decline in alcohol-related problems. We don't seem to want to go the route of prohibition again. We try to combat the problem through public and religious education, treatment, 12-step programs, and laws against public inebriation and drunk-driving. Yet, we still have a huge alcohol problem.

                         

                        Some gun deaths are due to plain old stupidity. Children accidentally killing themselves or others, because they had access to their parent's gun(s). I'm not sure of all the laws in each state, but I'm thinking that harsh sentences should be dealt out to the parent's of children who get access to their guns and kill, either accidentally or purposefully. Responsibility laws. If you own one, you have to be responsible for your weapon. No ifs, ands, or buts. If a kid gets your gun and kills with it, you're responsible and will be tried and sentenced harshly. Not sure if this will cure this underlying problem, but it might have some deterrence if a parent knew they'd get 25 years. Sometimes, there's just no cure for stupidity. Alcohol and drugs come into play here. Poverty and education as well.

                         

                        We can look at the whole list of gun-deaths in this country, and underlying problems that, if solved first, gun-deaths would be dramatically reduced. Eliminating guns completely would also reduce the amount of gun-deaths dramatically. But would it reduce gang-related warfare? Drunk men beating their wives? Problems caused by mentally ill people who are free to roam? People breaking into your house to steal to get money for their meth? It will solve none of the underlying problems that we keep sweeping under the rug for the most part.

                         

                        The state this country is in, with all the aforementioned social problems and the one's I haven't touched upon, I can understand owning a gun for protection. I can also understand why people want to get rid of them. I believe we need to work at the underlying problems first, because I think people with guns aren't going to give them up without a big fight, or an actual war if it comes down to it--the constitution be damned. Personally, I don't want to see that war. It will result in just more gun deaths. In the meantime, let's deal with mental illness,  poverty, alcoholism, gangs, drug addiction, gun responsibility, and inequities in available education and gun deaths will be reduced, and I believe dramatically.

                        Log    PRs


                        Feeling the growl again

                          The point that the gun v. car folks are making is that both are tools that can have dangerous consequences if used incorrectly--yet, one tool is emotionally debated and vilified while the other is not.

                           

                          I think we can all agree, that the purpose of a gun, as a tool, is to shot things (targets, animals, people).  That is its main purpose.  The purpose of a car is transportation (humans, goods, etc.).  So the guns vs. cars argument is somewhat flawed to begin with.  I really do not have a strong opinion either way in terms of gun control, I just think the guns vs. cars argument is rather silly.  Guns vs swords would be better . . . . maybe guns vs guillotines....

                           

                          Inanimate objects don't have intent.  Both are just tools.  What matters is only how they ARE used.  Saying that guns are only intended to shoot things and cars are not is only a backdoor way to try and tie a negative emotional label to firearms.  There is nothing evil about driving home from work....unless you are drunk and hit people...there is nothing evil about shooting...unless you are shooting at people.

                           

                          FWB:

                          "Shouldn't we be working for sensible ways to prevent murder and car crashes?"

                           

                          Absolutely.

                          "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                           


                          Feeling the growl again

                            ...

                            The state this country is in, with all the aforementioned social problems and the one's I haven't touched upon, I can understand owning a gun for protection. I can also understand why people want to get rid of them. I believe we need to work at the underlying problems first, because I think people with guns aren't going to give them up without a big fight, or an actual war if it comes down to it--the constitution be damned. Personally, I don't want to see that war. It will result in just more gun deaths. In the meantime, let's deal with mental illness,  poverty, alcoholism, gangs, drug addiction, gun responsibility, and inequities in available education and gun deaths will be reduced, and I believe dramatically.

                             

                            (Cut quote for length)

                             

                            Excellent post, jimmy.  Thank you.

                            "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                             


                            just a simple cat

                              "... In the meantime, let's deal with mental illness,  poverty, alcoholism, gangs, drug addiction, gun responsibility, and inequities in available education.."

                               

                              yeah, working effectively on these will take decades....can we disarm them in the meantime, to cut down on the slaughter of innocents?

                               

                              I  guess as you get more bodacious, you begin to lose more brain cells, because there is a limit to how much magnificence your body can house

                              jimmyb


                              port-a-bella-potty

                                "... In the meantime, let's deal with mental illness,  poverty, alcoholism, gangs, drug addiction, gun responsibility, and inequities in available education.."

                                 

                                yeah, working effectively on these will take decades....can we disarm them in the meantime, to cut down on the slaughter of innocents?

                                 

                                That's the question. Can you disarm them? If so, tell us how. Answer your own question. How far are you willing to go to rid the country of guns? Are you willing to go through a war for it? Imprison all of those who refuse to give them up? To see government troops fighting American citizens to take their guns? How long do think it will take to get an amendment passed? Is it doable in a faster time than "decades"?

                                 

                                Go deeper. A brief one sentence reply to the wordy book that I just posted is bit shallow. Lay out your plan for us. Tell us how we can avoid the actual gun battles that will ensue if guns are outlawed.

                                Log    PRs