RunningAHEAD - Topic: So would anyone care to explain VO2... (page 11)

Marcus L S

The Greatest of All Time

posted: 8/19/2008 at 11:57 AM

Quote from obsessor on 8/19/2008 at 11:55 AM:

I've heard that, too. Is it also true, that after you've run for a while, and amass some decent mileage, and you're running every day or almost, you should add in a couple of hill days? I mean, to gain strength and stuff, and to help increase your fitness and if you want to get faster? Also, it uses a bunch of oxygen when you run up those hills, right?

You should write a book. Call it Maximum Running and Stuff

all you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be

Obesity is a disease. Yes, a disease where nothing tastes bad...except salads.

Jeff

Why is it sideways?

posted: 8/19/2008 at 11:57 AM

Quote from Trent on 8/19/2008 at 11:54 AM:

Or, put differently: How can we say the same thing about the same objects but mean different things? Consider the following two expressions: 1) The morning star is low in the sky. 2) The evening star is low in the sky. These expressions refer to the same object (Venus), yet the sense of meaning conveyed by the two expressions is very different (consider the implicit time of day conveyed by the expressions). Ogden and Richards, and later Campbell, recognized the importance of the meaningful nuance among the terms that implied different contexts, but did not provide a direct framework for modeling these differences. Rather, their focus was to provide a model for distinguishing words from entities, regardless of context

They don't refer to the same object. That's the myth that leads to the elimination of context.

Trent

Good Bad & The Monkey

posted: 8/19/2008 at 11:59 AM

Quote from Jeff on 8/19/2008 at 11:57 AM:

They don't refer to the same object. That's the myth that leads to the elimination of context.

True. This is due to a conceptually oriented view of reality. And as you know, one solution to the problems raised by distinguishing between concepts and terms can be found in the philosophical evolution of ontology. Ontology can be generally defined both as the philosophical or logical study of existence, and as an instance of an organizing framework modeling the entities that exist and the relationships among them. The history of ontology can be summarized by counting to three; that is, the philosophical foundation for metaphysics have been conceived of as monadic, dyadic and triadic.

I'm running somewhere tomorrow. It's going to be beautiful. I can't wait.

Poor baby

jEfFgObLuE

I've got a fever...

posted: 8/19/2008 at 12:02 PM

Jesus M. Phelps, this thread is ridiculous.

On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office. But you will wish that you'd spent more time running. Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

mikeymike

posted: 8/19/2008 at 12:04 PM

Quote from obsessor on 8/19/2008 at 11:55 AM:

I've heard that, too. Is it also true, that after you've run for a while, and amass some decent mileage, and you're running every day or almost, you should add in a couple of hill days? I mean, to gain strength and stuff, and to help increase your fitness and if you want to get faster? Also, it uses a bunch of oxygen when you run up those hills, right?

By golly you may be onto somthing here. So then--thinking out loud here--it might be helpful to sometimes run faster for some distance, or period of time. Again, once you've run for a while and ammassed some decent mileage, and you're running every day or almost. Perhaps alternating varying lengths or periods of "fast" running with intervals of slower or "recovery" running? Because I think it uses a bunch of oxygen when you go faster, too, right?

Runners run

C-R

posted: 8/19/2008 at 12:04 PM
modified: 8/19/2008 at 12:06 PM

You guys should take this to the Off the beaten path thread on "Thing that suddenly don't make sense". MTA - I'm going out for a run and gain some miles and improve my VO2max Wink

instead of losing the ability for cognitive thought reading this parochial discussion. Big grin

"He conquers who endures" - Persius
"Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel

http://ncstake.blogspot.com/

mikeymike

posted: 8/19/2008 at 12:05 PM

Quote from jEfFgObLuE on 8/19/2008 at 12:02 PM:

Jesus M. Phelps, this thread is ridiculous.

Can I get a ruling here? Trying too hard to parlay yesterday's brilliance into another day in the limelight?

Runners run

Trent

Good Bad & The Monkey

posted: 8/19/2008 at 12:07 PM

Quote from C-R on 8/19/2008 at 12:04 PM:

You guys should take this to the Off the beaten path thread on "Thing that suddenly don't make sense".

Of course it does not make sense. So much of the discussion was black and white. Dichotomous. Dyadic. Dydadism is fraught with problems. We should see the world in terms of threeness, with the third aspect including context. As Jeff suggested. In particular, runners adhering to a triadic ontology attempt to address the dyadic problem of how to reconcile the two different aspects of reality by positing a third substance. The third, mediating, aspect of reality captures the sense in which the dualities in experience are always dualities in relation to some intent, or purpose. As Campbell himself points out, paraphrasing Aristotle, “…to say what something is, one must say why something is.” Perhaps the clearest advocate of the three-fold nature of reality was Peirce, who developed the categories of First, Second, and Third as follows: First is the conception of being or existing independent of anything else. Second is the conception of being relative to, the conception of reaction with, something else. Third is the conception of mediation, whereby a First and a Second are brought into relation.

I'm running somewhere tomorrow. It's going to be beautiful. I can't wait.

Poor baby

jEfFgObLuE

I've got a fever...

posted: 8/19/2008 at 12:08 PM

Quote from mikeymike on 8/19/2008 at 12:05 PM:

Can I get a ruling here? Trying too hard to parlay yesterday's brilliance into another day in the limelight?

Well, it's the only way I can participate in this thread and maintain sanity. You know that a thread about the scientific aspects of training has gone way off the rails if I want nothing to do with it.

On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office. But you will wish that you'd spent more time running. Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

jayheavner

posted: 8/19/2008 at 12:09 PM

I'm not sure if this is a hijack or if I'm going to start Wrestlemania 4,257 but my question is around a race/effort estimated VO2submax and LT. Is there a direct relationship between these two? Does it really matter? I get the basics of training under, at, and above LT threshold but are there training plans or benefits to VO2 training or is it just a number that gives one person bragging rights over another person because he/she has better potential?

2008 Goals Don't attack the guy that passes me like I'm standing still when I think I'm running fast...I can't catch him anyway and I'd just look silly

Dakota RR

Right on Hereford...

posted: 8/19/2008 at 12:10 PM
modified: 8/19/2008 at 12:14 PM

Quote from jayheavner on 8/19/2008 at 12:09 PM:

I'm not sure if this is a hijack or if I'm going to start Wrestlemania 4,257 but my question is around a race/effort estimated VO2submax and LT. Is there a direct relationship between these two? Does it really matter? I get the basics of training under, at, and above LT threshold but are there training plans or benefits to VO2 training or is it just a number that gives one person bragging rights over another person because he/she has better potential?

Jay, here's a great read on VO2 (both max and submax), from one of my favorite sports blogs: http://www.sportsscientists.com/2007/12/running-economy-part-i.html

Marcus L S

The Greatest of All Time

posted: 8/19/2008 at 12:10 PM

This is all getting way too complicated, dyad, triads, trifectas and the holy trinity. The solution to this madness clearly is Chia Running. Proven to raise Vo2 Max if it can indeed be raised.

all you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be

Obesity is a disease. Yes, a disease where nothing tastes bad...except salads.

jEfFgObLuE

I've got a fever...

posted: 8/19/2008 at 12:11 PM
modified: 8/19/2008 at 12:13 PM

Quote from jayheavner on 8/19/2008 at 12:09 PM:

but are there training plans or benefits to VO2 training or is it just a number that gives one person bragging rights over another person because he/she has better potential?

There are benefits to VO2max training (i.e. usually hard intervals). But VO2max is just a number. It confers no bragging rights. Running faster than someone else does that. MTA: No medals are awarded for VO2max. It is very possible that the highest VO2max runner in the marathon (whoever that is) won't medal. I don't imagine he/she will be bragging to the folks on the medal stand.

On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office. But you will wish that you'd spent more time running. Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

obsessor

posted: 8/19/2008 at 12:53 PM

Quote from mikeymike on 8/19/2008 at 12:04 PM:

By golly you may be onto somthing here. So then--thinking out loud here--it might be helpful to sometimes run faster for some distance, or period of time. Again, once you've run for a while and ammassed some decent mileage, and you're running every day or almost. Perhaps alternating varying lengths or periods of "fast" running with intervals of slower or "recovery" running? Because I think it uses a bunch of oxygen when you go faster, too, right?

It sure seams like it. I breathe a lot more, Mikey, when I run hard like that. So, to recap, you run a lot first, most every day, and quite good distance, for some period of time, say, 4 to 8 months. During this period, you get in pretty good shape, but you haven't gotten much fast, because you are running mostly pretty easy. Then have another period in your trainining, and you run some hills, and then another period, maybe even shorter, and you are running a little fast, but mostly still easy, and probably with the hills. Then once I do all those periods of training, it would be good to test myself in some running contests with others, just to see what happened as a result of the periodization. So, I could have a racing period. After that, I'd rest, drink some long-island iced teas in the shade for a while, and start all over again. Would that work?

runner92

Just Be

posted: 8/19/2008 at 12:56 PM

This thread is totally awesome. From simple question to complex scientific discussion to philosophic roots. Next you guys will be arguing the meaning of life! If a sentient being can ask itself such a question as to what is the meaning of life... Evil grin

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So would anyone care to explain VO2... (Read 2245 times)