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Where do I go from here? (Read 1320 times)

    Okay, back to my original topic.

     

    I guess I'm an idiot for trying to count my elliptical session as weekly mileage.  I use my heart rate monitor and try to keep it at my target heart rate for an easy run. 

     

    I for sure feel that it is much more of a workout than walking, and working the same basic muscles as if I were running so I have been counting it in my mileage all along.

     

    So far in 2012 I've logged 72.9 miles on the elliptical that I counted in my running totals, about 5 miles a week on average. 

     

    Should I not count that at all in figuring my fitness level?  It sure seems to fit more in line with running than anything else to me.

     

    Sure is different than biking and swimming.

    Age: 46 Weight: 200 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

    Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27


    Feeling the growl again

      Sigh.  I like you both and hate to both see this happening and wade into this...rather than getting emotional I am going to provide data and point some things out.

       

      Link

       

      This is the Montana mountain goat harvest report from 2005 (because it was the easiest to read).  Go to Page 39.

       

      You will notice several things:

      1)  Depending on district, success rates vary from 50-100%.  Average is in the 60-80% range.

      2)  Days in the field/hunter varied from 3-11. 

       

      So on average, it took a hunter about a full 7-day week in the field to have a 2/3 shot at taking a goat.  Personally I would not equate a week of all-day, hard hunting at altitude with shooting fish in a barrel.  Smile

       

      Regarding the comments about money, one simply cannot claim that the money hunters spend does not help maintain wildlife if they have done any research on the subject at all.  AFAIK every F&G/DNR in the nation is funded through those dollars...tens of thousands of acres of land (especially out west) are preserved for wildlife though those dollars.  I've personally hunted land that would have been developed or cleared for cattle, had it not been bought and preserved using dollars from hunting.

       

      The only reason duck populations in this country did not collapse due to modern ag practices was the preservation efforts of hunter groups like Ducks Unlimited.

       

      The only reason we still had pheasants...and habitat which also then supported other wildlife...was the aggressive action of Pheasants Forever, another hunter group.

       

      People protect and nurture things that have value.  It was not all that long ago that many African governements (which have enough problems) didn't give two shakes about their wildlife and protecting species.  However, once they learned that foreigners were willing to pay a good sum of money to come hunt them, they've now started to fiercely protect those populations. 

       

      Equating "hunters" of 100 years ago with hunters of today is a false comparison.  Hunters back then that nearly exterminated wolves and buffalo were in business; they were commercial (selling meat or pelts) or doing what they were doing to protect another commercial interest (cattle).  The purpose, intent and methods bear little resemblance to anything today.

       

      My area is an ecological wasteland....almost nothing but farm fields, very little habitat for anything.  I have been putting 5 years sweat equity and a decent amount of money into turning 10 acres back into good wildlife habitat...partly with help from Pheasants Forever and some state programs funded by hunter money

       

      MTA:  As npaden said below, hunting is a complex thing and hunters for the most part are not bloodthirsty killers.  One could point to the Indians, who also killed wildlife, and the respect they had for those same animals.  I respect people who choose not to hunt or don't agree with it for reasons I don't understand.  All I'd ask is the same respect returned.  It's easy to criticize something you don't understand...and easy to alienate people who you may otherwise have more in common with than differ.

      "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

       

        Wrigleygirl,

         

        Your fall must start a lot earlier than mine.  Those goats look like they are still shedding their winter coats.

         

        Hunting is a complex thing.  I get just as much enjoyment at seeing animals in their natural state as anyone.  Maybe more.  I don't see them with a kill, kill, kill mentality by any means.  I own property here in Texas and plant food plots and establish watering sources at my house even though there isn't even a hunting season in the county where I live.

        Age: 46 Weight: 200 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

        Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27


        A Sweetheart

           Spaniel, you must have missed this:

           

           

          Who started a hunting debate?  Not me, otherwise spaniel and I would have gone at it a million times.  I was expressing surprise and shock that people hunted mountain goats.

           

          Hunting Mountain Goats

           

          This isn't about ducks, Africa, 100 years ago, elk, and hunting in general.

           

          This is about shooting an animal that I have to be careful not to trip over a hour after I get off the plane at DIA.  This is about shooting an animal that if it was any more tame it would walk over to me when I make little kissy noises at it and say, "here goaty-goat".  This is about shooting an animal that you can do a drive-by on because they stand around licking roads for the salt.  This is shooting an animal that shows exactly the same avoidance of people as a cow does (hence the shooting cows in Wisconsin analogy), and can be found above the tree line, so you don't even need to walk around and find one.  Sit somewhere for an hour and you will see one.

           

          I believe that not everyone on a mountain goat hunt gets one.  I think everyone knows that a way too high percentage of hunters use getting out into the woods with a gun as an excuse to get blind drunk.  You would have to be passed out to miss one.

           

          And no, npaden, that picture is not mine.  My photos are distinguishable because they look like they were taken by a 3rd grader.

          I want to do it because I want to do it.  -Amelia Earhart

           

          Tennessee Beer Mile Queen

            I don't have a dog in this hunt but...

             

            Hunting deer in Wisconsin requires no talent. That's not a very good analogy. Plus, in general, the population of Wisconsin understands the need to thin the herd.

             

            Ah yes.....but what about the elusive Wisonsin Herford?

             

            The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

             

            2014 Goals:

             

            Stay healthy

            Enjoy life

             


            Feeling the growl again

               

              Hunting deer in Wisconsin requires no talent.

               

              "The 2009 deer season ended with a statewide registered harvest of approximately 330,000 deer by 842,873 licenses - a success ratio of one deer for every 2.5 licenses issued."  -- WDNR news release

               

              Note that talented hunters are going to be filling multiple licenses, so the success ratio on a per-hunter basis is even lower.

              "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

               

              xor


                If you want, go to the same mountains in the fall during hunting season and see if you can get within 200 yards of them.  I think you will find it to be much more of a challenge.

                 

                 

                I run in the mountains every fall.

                 

                You are wrong.

                 

                As for this...

                 

                >> It's easy to criticize something you don't understand...and easy to alienate people who you may otherwise have more in common with than differ.

                 

                Yes. That goes both ways.  It really really does.

                 

                  Wrigleygirl,

                   

                  Here's a post on a hunting forum where a guy was unsuccesful on his mountain goat hunt last year. 

                   

                  He didn't get in as many days as he would have liked, but somehow didn't ever manage to trip over one.

                   

                  As far as I could tell from reading it, he wasn't ever passed out drunk.

                   

                  http://onyourownadventures.com/hunttalk/showthread.php?t=247302

                   

                  MTA: Just went back and re-read that post.  There are pictures of dead animals in there so if you are easily offended, you might not want to read it.  Some other folks posted some of their pictures of their successes, the original poster wasn't as lucky.

                  Age: 46 Weight: 200 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                  Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27

                  xor


                    Now.  Speaking of running trails during hunting season...

                     

                    I live in an area where a few years back, a lady was shot on a wide, well marked trail by a 14 year old boy (with no adults anywhere) who thought she was a bear.  YIKES.  This is incredibly rare, thankfully, but still.  I run in very bright clothes usually.

                     

                    This may make me more visible to hunters. I hope.  The side effect is that it seems to piss off bees and hornets.  Yay.

                     

                      On the subject of eating animals: I saw an interesting movie the other night, Forks Over Knives. I am not a vegetarian, but this movie makes an interesting case. 

                      "If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus

                        Last week I saw seal pelts for sale in a gift shop at the Reykjavik airport. I grew up in a hunting family but this one caught me off guard.

                         

                        There it is on top of the reindeer rug. BTW, reindeer are domesticated and farmed, cows of the arctic.

                         

                         

                        Another thing that suprised me was the bear paté I saw for sale in Finland.

                         

                          "The 2009 deer season ended with a statewide registered harvest of approximately 330,000 deer by 842,873 licenses - a success ratio of one deer for every 2.5 licenses issued."  -- WDNR news release

                           

                          Note that talented hunters are going to be filling multiple licenses, so the success ratio on a per-hunter basis is even lower.

                           

                          Are you sure all of those 842,873 licenses were actually issued. I don't know that they are. And not all of those tags are for "either sex" and some hunters that hold either sex are hunting Bucks only anyway letting tags go unfilled. Another thing that skews those numbers are land owner tags. Many land owners take the tags but don't actually go hunting. They grab them in case a friend wants one or should they see that monster buck they've been seeing all year while out counting cattle.

                           

                          As a yearly deer hunter in Wisconsin I usually have my 3 tags filled with in the first 4 hours. I hunt for the meat, I'm not interested in saving a tag for a trophy. I'm also not a talented hunter. There have been times I haven't filled all of my tags but not because I didn't have an opportunity. There are days all you see are young button bucks and small doe...ya let em go.

                           

                          If you can't bag a deer in Wisconsin or Iowa you are a piss poor hunter.

                           

                          My point was counter to the sudden disappearence of deer come hunting season. That doesn't happen.


                          Feeling the growl again

                            If you can't bag a deer in Wisconsin or Iowa you are a piss poor hunter.

                             

                            My point was counter to the sudden disappearence of deer come hunting season. That doesn't happen.

                             

                            My point was that data and perceptions are two different things.  The fact is, a lot of hunters in WI don't bag deer.  Perhaps where you live there are like rats and all you need to do is sit somewhere and be able to hit your intended target.  I used to live somewhere like that too, I'd fill 6 tags in 2 mornings.  However, I know a lot of people north of you in the state who have gone a year or two without seeing one during season....they are about to the point of not hunting around home anymore.  Your perception is not applicable to deer hunters elsewhere in your state, much less across the nation and to different species.  I would guess you would be aware of the big problem WI DNR has with the hunter community right now due to over-estimating populations and almost eradicating the herd in some areas....where they have done that, it's going to take a lot of skill (or luck!) to be successful.

                             

                            Likewise, occasionally running into an animal at close range when running...in an area where animals may even be used to running into humans that aren't hunting them...is hardly an accurate perception of what it is like to try and hunt that same animal in a different setting.  Animals also tend to react very differently to someone just passing by, and someone who is trying to close distance and approach them.

                             

                            As for sudden disappearance come hunting season, I disagree with you...at least where I am.  While you may see herds out in the fields at dusk prior to the season, by dusk the first day of the season the only deer that is going to step out into the open is a dumb yearling...at least where I hunt.  >70% of deer here are taken the first two days of the season....after that they go nocturnal and the only way you are going to see one is by using some skill to get close enough to them in deep cover where they are holding tight before they are on to you and take off.  I have trail cameras on my land....before season, photos day and night.  After opening day, no more daytime photos.  Not one, all season.

                            "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                             

                              Npaden, I agree that 25 miles per week should be sufficient to maintain your fitness, I also think that you should be careful about what you eat as I have always found that gaining unwanted weight is the number 1 thing that might affect your fitness for all the climbing you will be doing.

                               

                              More importantly, best of luck with your goat hunt.  I myself am an avid deer hunter. I have hiked and run many hundreds  of miles (if not thousands, I didn't keep a log back then) in the woods of New England, North Carolina, Virginia and Georgia and I have never had the encounters with various wild life as a hiker or runner that I have had as a deer (or bear) hunter.  Non hunters can never seem to understand this.

                               

                              Nice elk by the way. 

                              vegefrog


                                 >70% of deer here are taken the first two days of the season....after that they go nocturnal and the only way you are going to see one is by using some skill to get close enough to them in deep cover where they are holding tight before they are on to you and take off.  I have trail cameras on my land....before season, photos day and night.  After opening day, no more daytime photos.  Not one, all season.

                                 My mom has 100 + acres west of Little rock. My whole family hunts except for me (I just reap the rewards and have a steady supply of venison). It amazes me that I can go visit her and see deer everywhere on the ranch just having a nice relaxed time and enjoying the space. When I visit during hunting season...I won't see a single deer leisurely walking around!!

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