Lance Armstrong appears finally to have run out of rope. (Read 2696 times)


Feeling the growl again

    But, in this case, IF he's been clean, and more importantly, IF he's currently clean, then this early conviction (and WTF policy) is preventing him from competing this weekend.... and next .... and maybe forever.

     

    I just don't understand.....

     

    This is so far from my reality, but, from a human level, it kind of sucks to be convicted before trial.


    Cheers, and have a great weekend enjoying every minute of whatever you do.
    Brian

     

    Athletes are routinely banned from competition before they are fully convicted of a doping offense (the most obvious example is a positive A sample only).  That's just how the system works, and Lance is far from the first to fall under this policy.  One could easily play the what IF game around what IF after there is significant evidence that he is doping, he is allowed to compete in events and mess with their outcomes?

     

    Yes it kind of sucks...there are athletes who missed out on major championships only to be cleared on the B sample...however there are also those that were convicted by that B sample and so would have been competing dirty...screw one athlete over a not-yet-complete process or screw all those that compete against them in the interim?  One can argue both sides of that.

    "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

     

      Well, let's hope that the people whose job it is to make this decision, the people who know the facts of the case, the people charged with enforcing these rules made the right decision.

       

      They made this decision because they thought that they had enough evidence to show that he violated the rules of the sport and lied about it for years.

       

      Ugh.  If we're going to try to be objective (and I am not), let's at least consider the possibility that USADA CEO Travis Tygart is motivated by career advancement, political grandstanding, and ego satisfaction.  It was Tygart's decision.  Period.  He knows that he has a weak burden of proof ("comfortable satisfaction"), no real rules of evidence, no discovery, limited ability to cross-examine the witnesses, and will benefit from an administrative process that is not particularly well suited for this type of accusation.  There's a reason that the US Attorney's Office passed despite the so-called overwhelming proof of a decade-long conspiracy and that Lance is the only rider charged.  If this was a real case, you'd see dozens of riders brought in.  

       

      Last I heard, Tygart was still playing "I'm not going to show you the evidence," which is not the hallmark of fair play.  Reminds me of that joker Michael Powell and his crusade to get Howard Stern. 

       

      Despite what Tygart says, Lance is guilty until he proves himself innocent and Tygart knows that is impossible.  We no longer accept clean drug tests (so why did they bother) as evidence of anything even though Lance was probably the most tested rider of all time.  Did he dope when he came in 3d long last his prime?  

       

      We are all convinced that Lance could not win without doping because everyone else was.  We are all eager to see him stripped of titles, even though the logic of the accusers implies that nobody deserved to win for at least a decade.  So we're going to take the titles from Lance and give them to Ullrich?  Stupid.  If they want to take the titles, disqualify the US Postal Service team entirely and be done with it.  

       

      I suspect that in the coming months, the USADA will take some lumps if Lance chooses to fight.  I suspect that they are overselling the blood tests, that there are reasons to question the witnesses, and that sooner or later Tygart will cross a line of some sort.  

       

       

        


      Prince of Fatness

        This thread has stamina.  Maybe it should be tested.

        Semi-retired.

          Ugh.  If we're going to try to be objective (and I am not), let's at least consider the possibility that USADA CEO Travis Tygart is motivated by career advancement, political grandstanding, and ego satisfaction.  It was Tygart's decision.  Period.  He knows that he has a weak burden of proof ("comfortable satisfaction"), no real rules of evidence, no discovery, limited ability to cross-examine the witnesses, and will benefit from an administrative process that is not particularly well suited for this type of accusation.  There's a reason that the US Attorney's Office passed despite the so-called overwhelming proof of a decade-long conspiracy and that Lance is the only rider charged.  If this was a real case, you'd see dozens of riders brought in.  

           

          Last I heard, Tygart was still playing "I'm not going to show you the evidence," which is not the hallmark of fair play.  Reminds me of that joker Michael Powell and his crusade to get Howard Stern. 

           

          Despite what Tygart says, Lance is guilty until he proves himself innocent and Tygart knows that is impossible.  We no longer accept clean drug tests (so why did they bother) as evidence of anything even though Lance was probably the most tested rider of all time.  Did he dope when he came in 3d long last his prime?  

           

          We are all convinced that Lance could not win without doping because everyone else was.  We are all eager to see him stripped of titles, even though the logic of the accusers implies that nobody deserved to win for at least a decade.  So we're going to take the titles from Lance and give them to Ullrich?  Stupid.  If they want to take the titles, disqualify the US Postal Service team entirely and be done with it.  

           

          I suspect that in the coming months, the USADA will take some lumps if Lance chooses to fight.  I suspect that they are overselling the blood tests, that there are reasons to question the witnesses, and that sooner or later Tygart will cross a line of some sort.  

           

          +1 this I accept as a LA fan.

          Ricky

          —our ability to perform up to our physiological potential in a race is determined by whether or not we truly psychologically believe that what we are attempting is realistic. Anton Krupicka

            I suspect that in the coming months, the USADA will take some lumps if Lance chooses to fight.  I suspect that they are overselling the blood tests, that there are reasons to question the witnesses, and that sooner or later Tygart will cross a line of some sort.  

            I recall reading somewhere that Armstrong said he wouldn't fight if the Review Board ratified the charges (or whatever terminology they use).

            “Everything you need is already inside.” -- Bill Bowerman


            In it for the long run..

              I am a Lance fan and swam on a team with him in Dallas a number of years ago.  I know with complete certainty that he doped pre-cancer but I have always believed that he has been clean since the cancer.   I'm not so sure anymore, but I wish they would just give up and leave him alone.The evidence hasn't been there.  Maybe it is now.  I don't know.  I sure hope not.

              "It's not who wins the workout..."

              xor


                Clemens was found not guilty of lying to congress.

                 

                I didn't feel like building another thread for that.

                 

                Giddyup, Red Sox fans.

                 

                  Rodney King died this week. 

                   

                  Some guy Bradley won a fight. 

                   

                  Tim Teebow is in New York.

                   

                  LeBron is in the finals.

                   

                  are we covered?

                  In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion

                  http://htwins.net/scale2/scale2.swf?bordercolor=white&fb_source=message

                   

                   

                   

                  xor


                    Not quite.

                     

                    Heat v Thunder

                     

                    I can't root for either team.  Not just because one side is the Heat and the other is my former team.  But because their names SUCK.  And no, not just because they aren't pluralized.  Try to draw a concrete picture of "heat". Or "thunder".

                     

                    Shit on that.

                     

                      Also I think Syria is still having an uprising and the Greeks voted in favor of having the rest of Europe bail them out.

                      Runners run.

                        It looks to be tense in Egypt right now.


                        Feeling the growl again

                          Frog Juice

                           

                           

                          This should be cross-posted to the marijuana thread...

                          "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                           


                          A Sweetheart

                            I want to do it because I want to do it.  -Amelia Earhart

                             

                            Tennessee Beer Mile Queen


                            Ostrich runner

                              Comrades Winner Fails Doping Test.

                               

                              Reading the wikipedia entry, it seems possible that substance is in many otherwise legal supplements. I remember going to GNC as a college athlete and the salesperson knowing which supplements would make us fail a NCAA test. Mostly those were ones that had ephedrine. Still, those were popular for those of us transitioning from 30 mpw to 80 overnight. 

                              http://www.runningahead.com/groups/Indy/forum