RunningAHEAD - Topic: Finally made it to Page 1

lasdinaub

posted: 7/2/2007 at 5:52 PM

Quote from JWU42 on 6/19/2007 at 10:49 AM:

Me too!!

Next up: A 50k in ? Done: California-Oregon-Arizona-Nevada (x2)-Wisconsin-Wyoming-Utah-Michigan-Colorado

JWU42

Forever Learning

posted: 7/3/2007 at 5:51 PM

Congrats!

Mississippi

posted: 7/3/2007 at 7:12 PM

Quote from lasdinaub on 7/2/2007 at 5:52 PM:

Me too!!

Awesome! Such a great feeling. Smile

Michelle

Mississippi

posted: 7/5/2007 at 11:52 AM

Quote from JWU42 on 6/25/2007 at 11:41 PM:

Don't forget the rest days - it looks like you haven't had one in a while. Recovery is part of training. And no, this isn't said because we have a little rivalry going

Hey. Aren't you about due for a few rest days? Wink

(that would give me time to catch up)

Michelle

JWU42

Forever Learning

posted: 7/5/2007 at 5:34 PM
modified: 7/5/2007 at 5:37 PM

Not with you dropping 13 milers on me Wink

In all seriousness - I was looking at the pace of your runs and am a bit concerned that you are going a bit too hard. For example - your tempo runs of 3 miles are faster than your 5K PR? That shouldn't be. Tempo runs should be 25-30 seconds per mile slower than 5-K race pace. Tempo runs should be "comfortably hard" and not all out efforts. Either you are set for a 20 minute 5-K or you are running your tempo's too fast. If you haven't looked at it before, McMillan (www.mcmillanrunning.com/rununiv/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm ) provides some good training paces based on a recent race result. Remember that ~80% of your weekly miles should be fairly easy and relaxed at an aerobic pace (can talk in full sentences). Don't want to see you get injured or burned out...

Mississippi

posted: 7/5/2007 at 5:53 PM
modified: 7/5/2007 at 5:59 PM

Quote from JWU42 on 7/5/2007 at 5:34 PM:

Not with you dropping 13 milers on me In all seriousness - I was looking at the pace of your runs and am a bit concerned that you are going a bit too hard. For example - your tempo runs of 3 miles are faster than your 5K PR? That shouldn't be. Tempo runs should be 25-30 seconds per mile slower than 5-K race pace. Tempo runs should be "comfortably hard" and not all out efforts. Either you are set for a 20 minute 5-K or you are running your tempo's too fast. If you haven't looked at it before, McMillan (www.mcmillanrunning.com/rununiv/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm ) provides some good training paces based on a recent race result. Remember that ~80% of your weekly miles should be fairly easy and relaxed at an aerobic pace (can talk in full sentences). Don't want to see you get injured or burned out...

Thank you. I'm very determined to race a 21 min. 5k and that is why I push my 3 mile tempo runs. Keep in mind that MOST of my tempo runs are on the treadmill so it's a false representation of my true speed (at least that's my theory). Treadmill running is easier and I use that as a base for outside running. I also get nervous at races and that works against me so my race times suffer. Although it is rare that I feel like I'm going all out during my tempo runs. I do have trouble slowing down even for long runs. I think it's because I'm always up against a hectic schedule and trying to squeeze in my running. I'm in the process of working on a running schedule, with help from Scout7. I'm hoping that will help me figure out how to maintain safe training. I don't want to get injured or burned out either.

Michelle

jEfFgObLuE

I've got a fever...

posted: 7/5/2007 at 6:13 PM

Quote from Mississippi on 7/5/2007 at 5:53 PM:

I'm in the process of working on a running schedule, with help from Scout7. I'm hoping that will help me figure out how to maintain safe training.

Scout'll probably tell you this (but maybe he won't) -- to get over the hump and bump your time down, you'll need to do some shorter intervals at faster than 5k race pace. Running faster than race pace will actually make race pace feel easier to you. 400~1000m intervals are great for 5k improvements, and 3x1 mile at 5k pace with 3~4 minutes easy recovery jog is a fantastic workout. The best pace that you can sustain for all 3 of the one-mile segments (as opposed to blasting the one or two and dying) will very closely match what you should be able to do for a 5k race. McMillan gives good target times for all of these intervals. Lots of debate over this, but you may want to set your treadmill to 1% incline to make it more comparable to real-life running.

On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office. But you will wish that you'd spent more time running. Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

JWU42

Forever Learning

posted: 7/5/2007 at 6:48 PM
modified: 7/5/2007 at 6:50 PM

Agree on the TM - definitely easier for tempo runs. I know more than a few experienced marathoners that use them for tempo runs since you can maintain the consistent pace - part of the goal of a tempo run. That said - I still think 6:50'ish is probably above your lactate threshold. The goal of tempo runs is to be run just below your lactate threshold - with the goal of slowing lactic acid production during vigorous efforts. With training you can improve the pace at when you hit your lactate threshold. If you are running above your lactate threshold you are defeating the purpose of the tempo rum (IMHO). Now, as jeffgoblue said, if you want to run 3x1600m intervals at 5K pace that is more of a VO2max workout (speed interval). Even if you don't plan on running a marathon, reading a book like Daniels Running Formula by Jack Daniels or Advanced Marathoning by Pete Pfitzinger explain a good bit of the physiological effects of training in addition to having training plans. Tim Noakes has an "encyclopedia" called The Lore of Running if you really want to dive into the physiology.

Mississippi

posted: 7/5/2007 at 10:04 PM
modified: 7/5/2007 at 10:22 PM

I keep thinking that I'm catching on but then I realize that I still have a long way to go. I should check out the local library to see if they have those books. I do have one book, a Complete Guide to Running, but that's it. When I ran on Wednesday, it was about at mile 10 when I started craving a soda, a Coke. The craving was intense. When I got home the first thing I did was grab the one and only Coke in the fridge and over the next ten minutes I drank the whole thing. I don't drink soda that often and I rarely finish an entire can. My body needed something in it due to running for almost 2 hours. I need to work on figuring out why, and how to prevent such a need after running. I must have been missing something. My legs are still pretty sore from that long run too. As for my tempo pace runs, I've listed them as tempo just because I view that as being a race pace but not a race. I guess I was confused (as usual). My last tempo run was done outside, on a flat course and I was in a "zone" of some sort, so the three miles just flew by, the last mile being the fastest. I don't know my splits, I don't ever keep track of that. I just map out courses and I run them. The local track is always locked so that's not an option. I'm thinking of joining a local running club, The Valley Forge Striders. I think I'll benefit a lot from running with a group. They do speed workouts at a track in another school district. I will work on my training schedule and try to keep in mind the differences of types of runs, and the gains from doing them correctly. And, yes, I am training for a marathon....I'm just not telling anyone yet. (Philly Marathon in Nov - before my 36th b-day) Big grin

Michelle

Mississippi

posted: 7/5/2007 at 10:06 PM
modified: 7/5/2007 at 10:08 PM

Quote from JWU42 on 7/5/2007 at 6:48 PM:

That said - I still think 6:50'ish is probably above your lactate threshold. The goal of tempo runs is to be run just below your lactate threshold - with the goal of slowing lactic acid production during vigorous efforts. With training you can improve the pace at when you hit your lactate threshold. If you are running above your lactate threshold you are defeating the purpose of the tempo rum (IMHO)

I need to read more about this. My thought is that by pushing myself to run harder my body would get used to that and run faster, easier.

Michelle

Mississippi

posted: 7/5/2007 at 10:12 PM

Quote from jEfFgObLuE on 7/5/2007 at 6:13 PM:

400~1000m intervals are great for 5k improvements, and 3x1 mile at 5k pace with 3~4 minutes easy recovery jog is a fantastic workout. The best pace that you can sustain for all 3 of the one-mile segments (as opposed to blasting the one or two and dying) will very closely match what you should be able to do for a 5k race. McMillan gives good target times for all of these intervals.Lots of debate over this, but you may want to set your treadmill to 1% incline to make it more comparable to real-life running.

The intervals sound like something I could do with or without a track. I just have to map out a course that would allow for the mile with a 3 or 4 minute jog between. The neighbors might think I'm silly, but that's okay, I think they've adjusted to my running by now. My treadmill is old...there aren't any number settings for the incline, I just have it always set to two clicks Confused

.

Michelle

Bonkin

posted: 7/5/2007 at 11:35 PM

Quote from JWU42 on 7/5/2007 at 6:48 PM:

Even if you don't plan on running a marathon, reading a book like Daniels Running Formula by Jack Daniels or Advanced Marathoning by Pete Pfitzinger explain a good bit of the physiological effects of training in addition to having training plans. Tim Noakes has an "encyclopedia" called The Lore of Running if you really want to dive into the physiology.

I haven't read Noakes, but I concur on the other two. I learned a lot from reading these. Regarding your body craving the coke after a 13 mile run? I wouldn't try to prevent it. IMO it's simply your body begging for you to replenish all the glycogen you just burned. Water does me just fine on shorter (say 6-8 miles or less) runs - but anything longer and I have to have carbs - for me that means gatorade or something like that.

When it’s all said and done, will you have said more than you’ve done?

Mississippi

posted: 7/6/2007 at 1:22 AM

Quote from JWU42 on 7/5/2007 at 5:34 PM:

Not with you dropping 13 milers on me

I was going for 15 miles, but my legs had other plans and I had to stop at 13.2. I think that for my next long run I'll have to go slower. Maybe then I'll last longer.

Michelle

Mississippi

posted: 7/6/2007 at 1:25 AM

Quote from Bonkin on 7/5/2007 at 11:35 PM:

Regarding your body craving the coke after a 13 mile run? I wouldn't try to prevent it. IMO it's simply your body begging for you to replenish all the glycogen you just burned. Water does me just fine on shorter (say 6-8 miles or less) runs - but anything longer and I have to have carbs - for me that means gatorade or something like that.

Usually I just take a small water bottle with me on all my runs, and that does me just fine. This was my longest run outside of the two HM's I did. The first HM I did I was so anxious and excited I could have run a full marathon!! The second was a trail HM and there was a lot of walking with all the hills, oh, and the beer and freezie pop during the race. I guess I wasn't craving anything after those.

Michelle

jEfFgObLuE

I've got a fever...

posted: 7/6/2007 at 11:18 AM

Quote from Mississippi on 7/5/2007 at 10:06 PM:

I need to read more about this. My thought is that by pushing myself to run harder my body would get used to that and run faster, easier.

True, but pushing yourself at different paces/distances improves different systems. (i.e. VO2max, lactate, etc.) For tempo runs, I've always used to guide of 10~20sec/mile slower than 10k pace. This is right about at the lactate threshold. You're doing a kind of tempo-plus run, which is fine, but you'd actually get more benefit by going faster for shorter distances. For example, if you start doing shorter intervals at 3k pace, it will make your 5k pace seem easier to you. Also, issue with tempo runs, even the fast ones that you're doing now, is that they are run at a pace slower than 5k race pace. You'll also need to do some work at or faster than 5k pace. As for where to do intervals, you don't need a track. And you don't necessarily need to be precise -- you can run time based intervals. Or you can look at my avatar. Garmie has all the answers. Clowning around

On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office. But you will wish that you'd spent more time running. Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

1000 Mile Club

Finally made it to Page 1 (Read 584 times)