Prince of Fatness
Craft Brews Slowly Chipping Away At Big Beer's Dominance
In the bar, customer Rordam says even if he has sampled some upscale microbrews at $6, $7 or $8 a pint, those prices might eventually force him to go back down the ladder.
"After I've had like three or four microbrews, I'll think, 'Wow, that was $25 [or] $30, I should probably get a Bud Light now because this is getting ridiculous,' " he says.
Really? Dude you could just not have another beer and get a glass of water instead. Same thing anyway.
Not at it at all.
In the bar, customer Rordam says even if he has sampled some upscale microbrews at $6, $7 or $8 a pint, those prices might eventually force him to go back down the ladder. "After I've had like three or four microbrews, I'll think, 'Wow, that was $25 [or] $30, I should probably get a Bud Light now because this is getting ridiculous,' " he says. Really? Dude you could just not have another beer and get a glass of water instead. Same thing anyway.
Quantity vs. quality. I see this all the time when working the various concerts and pro sports here (yeah I'm a volunteer bartender for our soccer club). We usually have a stand that has Stella and Shock Top on tap and invariably I spend all night opening Bud Light, Coors Light and Miller Lite cans because they are a buck cheaper.
Total aside but related to quality vs. quantity - on Untappd there is a badge for Lite Weight which requires you drink CL, BL and ML. I mentioned this to DW and she said, "Are you really going to drink that swill for a stupid imaginary badge?" And she's a wine drinker. Man I definitely married up.
"He conquers who endures" - Persius "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel
http://ncstake.blogspot.com/
This. Or this. Both are yummy ryes.
This.
Or this.
Both are yummy ryes.
Sixpoint just popped up here in Athens recently. One bar hosted a takeover with a bunch of their beers. Good stuff.
I drink a lot of Terrapin Rye. Good session beer.
Quantity vs. quality.
Yep. And you can mitigate the cost of craft beer. Most of the craft beer that I drink is at home or out with the neighbors on a weekend. Craft beer takeout is generally $2 - $3 per 12 oz, about the same as drinking the swill out at a bar. Plus you can find discounts if you look. My regular beer place is always discounting seasonal beers once she has had them on the shelves for too long.
When I am out at a restaurant or bar it is rare that I stay longer than it takes to drink a couple of beers. For one thing most craft beer has a higher ABV so you don't want to be chain drinking that stuff, whether you are driving or not.
So anyway I don't completely by the cost argument, but that's just me.
Good Bad & The Monkey
Yeah, on the cost thing, I just don't get it. Nobody would blink at spending $10+ for a glass or $40+ for a bottle of special wine these days. Arguably, beer takes a lot more effort and craftmanship than wine. However, folks always complain about pricey beers. Meh. Get over it. Spend a few dollars for something very special.
I'm running somewhere tomorrow. It's going to be beautiful. I can't wait.
Poor baby
When I trade quality for quantity, I only turn one direction: Guinness. Lower ABV and I can drink it well past the point where I cant. Not gonna save much scratch, but if its that tight one could go "freegan" instead of a running to the border for a 4th meal.
Thanks for the rye tips guys, noted for the next shopping trip.
Feeling the growl again
I would blink. One thing I like about craft beer is that most of it is accessible at a reasonable cost. At $40(++) a bottle even though I am a vinter I buy little "special" commercial wine because I am just too cheap to get into that.
I'd argue very hard the comment on beer requiring more effort and craftsmanship. Having been involved in a bit of from-scratch beermaking (admittedly nothing to the level Finn does on a routine basis) but having >10 years of winemaking under my belt, I would disagree. I would not say doing either one well is necessarily easier or requires less craftsmanship. Consistently making good wine is not just pressing some grapes, pitching some yeast, and seeing how it turns out. For example you must have good starting material, which requires proper vineyard site selection, matching variety to soil and climate, and maintaining the vines for proper quality and yield (to get sugar and acid right). Then there are nearly infinite variations you can use in pressing, skin soaking, yeast strain selection, malolactic fermentation, oaking, back-sweetening, aging etc etc to affect the quality and character of the final product.
So the process is really a LOT more time-consuming as you can really only have 1 opportunity a year to do it and even a sweet white takes a year to really know how it turned out (reds can be 2-3 years to have a good idea). I have made approaching 1000 gallons of wine and still have a lot to learn.
"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand
I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills
I too have made wine, and have also made beer.
Beer has many many variables you can and do control. That is crafting. Arguably, with wine, the less you do the better, so there is less crafting. Yes, I agree, wine is one shot per year, but that is a different issue than the complexity of the crafting process. Making a good beer is pretty easy. Making a very special beer is very difficult, complex and time consuming, more so than wine. Some of the beers in question are barrel aged, require multiple steps and high-end ingredients, all of which add to the cost.
Yah, I recognize all the issues and complexities with making consistent good wine. But all those factors exist with beer too. Plus some more.
I am not suggesting that every beer should be $40/bottle, nor am I that every wine should be $40/bottle. But for a super special occasional celebration bottle, people complain about $30+ for beer but will happily shell out $100+ for a wine.
Having been involved in a bit of from-scratch beermaking (admittedly nothing to the level Finn does on a routine basis)
Most of the beer that I make turns out good, some just OK. You have only had the good stuff. Rarely has any been bad. I have had maybe 2 - 3 batches that I would consider special. So I agree completely with what Trent says here....
Making a good beer is pretty easy. Making a very special beer is very difficult
Having never made wine I cannot speak to comparing them, but I would imagine that if you were out to make a very special one of either you would really enjoy what you do and it would not be considered work (I enjoy brewing beer and really don't consider it work), so comparing them may be splitting hairs anyway.
As for why more people bitch more for paying a lot for beer and not for wine, I think that is more because beer has always been considered more of a drink for the masses. Craft brewing is sort of a new thing, at least its popularity is new. Most people are not used paying a lot for beer where the concept of an expensive bottle of wine is not new. That's my take.
Beer has many many variables you can and do control. That is crafting. Arguably, with wine, the less you do the better, so there is less crafting.
Good winemakers control a large number of factors, and the list I provided was not comprehensive. For example my kegerator purchase was nice for the beer mile, but the real reason was to have more precise temperature control to improve the flavor of my white wine. If you think people don't manipulate a large number of variables to craft their wine I don't think you have spent a lot of time with really serious winemakers.
Off the top of my head here are the primary variables I am working to optimize for my Cayuga White, given that just selecting that vine and the training style were already variables I had to decide:
-Fermentation temp (I feel I have this down)
-Yeast strain (already tested a few, I think I have this selected)
-Starting Brix (going with the ol' average, will test another year)
-Pressing technique (currently running a test on last year's via 3 batches)
-Skin soak time (on my second test, only get one run per year)
-Stem soak (haven't tried this yet)
-Oak (haven't tried this on white yet, maybe next year)
-Back-sweetening (testing in a few weeks)
This is just the easy stuff, I haven't approached the chemistry yet but I probably should...especially on the red.
This does not even touch the crafting you can get into with fruit wine.
MTA: One of the things I have really struggled with now that I have my own vines is how many variables there are, the fact that they are interdependent, and deciding which ones I am going to manipulate and which ones I am going to choose just a go-to average value and hold it constant.
I recall a conversation with a vinter when I was in Sonoma about how the vineyard ripened unevenly. He used different parts of the vineyard for different wines because of this.
Blah blah blah. Dude. Listen. You only need to know one thing. It is this: Hop Project #71 in hand.
Q.E.D.
Blah blah blah. Dude. Listen. You only need to know one thing. It is this: Hop Project #71 in hand. Q.E.D.
So math major, is #71 going in a box? I hope so.
Probably better than the box wine I'm polishing off. I'm sure there was more craftsmanship involved in the #71.
http://beerpulse.com/2013/03/stone-espresso-imperial-russian-stout-debuts-on-april-15th-091
I just had a bottle of the 2012 stone imperial russian stout and it's fantastic. I'll definitely be buying some of the regular and espresso versions when these get released.
For you local Indiana types I tried Daredevils (Shelbyville) Muse last night. It is a great Belgian. A little sweet but very very good. These boys know their brew.
Sorry for those not in the area as they don't bottle yet. Only at bars