3650 Miles in the Hurtlocker

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Ultra Fueling (Read 268 times)

C-R


    My first 50 is in June. This is a call out on fueling.

     

    How, what where and when? Give it up DB, A1, flatfooter, WG and the rest of you ultra denizens.


    "He conquers who endures" - Persius
    "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel

    http://ncstake.blogspot.com/

      This is the wrong thread for this, but I don't remember offhand which one is right. Anyway. C-R, I said I'd be watching, and I am. I've taken note of the fact that you're just shy of 2000 with a week to go. At your current rate this should be no problem, but yeah, get that done. No excuses.

       

      I'm also very interested in the more appropriate replies to this thread. Carry on.

      Yes, you do smell like that.

        I have a friend that has run at least 5 100 milers and he swears by Spaghettios.  He said that the sweet fuels eventually give him a stomach ache, but Spaghettios doesn't.

         

        From my experience, nothing tastes better than soup after a race so I can imagine enjoying Spaghettios during an ultra.


        A Sweetheart

          For a 50 you don't have to do anything other than gu and liquids. Gu needs to be taken on a regular basis.  It can be complicated to keep to a regular schedule if you are depending on aid stations and aren't carrying liquid to wash it down. Pop and sports drink will help supplement calories and provide some electrolytes ( pop has more sodium than you would think). It would be beneficial to have electrolyte pills ready in case you need them. Some people take them on a regular basis, some only when it is hot, and some as needed. Hand swelling can be a good sign that they are needed. Aid stations have all sorts of food, so if you start craving something, grab a handful and go.  I just don't think you need to pack a bunch of extra food.

          I want to do it because I want to do it.  -Amelia Earhart

           

          Tennessee Beer Mile Queen

          C-R


            This 50 is in June so heat may be an issue. Also its a point to point.

             

            I usually take a Gu every 30 minutes when I'm racing a marathon of HM and that works pretty well. You talking about regular soda like coke (non diet)? Lots of fizz. Does that cause a stomach issue?


            "He conquers who endures" - Persius
            "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel

            http://ncstake.blogspot.com/


            A Dance with Monkeys

              Everything WG says aligns with my experience. GU and Heed/Perpetuum, with some salt caps is about all I ever take. Occasionally some water and some Coke, but not much.


              A Dance with Monkeys

                C-R, I find that for a 50, I only need a Gu every 45-60 minutes, maybe even 75 minutes. If the Aid Station folks are doing their job, they will elt the Coke sit out so it goes flat (this is good). If it is fizzy, you burp for a mile and then it passes.


                Feeling the growl again

                  C-R, I find that for a 50, I only need a Gu every 45-60 minutes, maybe even 75 minutes. If the Aid Station folks are doing their job, they will elt the Coke sit out so it goes flat (this is good). If it is fizzy, you burp for a mile and then it passes.

                   

                  I think the Gu frequency is something one has to figure for themselves.  It is important to realize that marathon experiences don't translate well; you are really just trying to stave off running out of fuel for the last 4-6 miles.  So as long as you don't upset your stomach, just get in 300-500cal during the race and it's probably sufficient.

                   

                  In a 50, you're trying to fuel the second half of your race.  Fall behind, and at some point you are likely screwed.

                   

                  I've had good luck with Gu every 20 minutes.  But since I've been moving at 6:40-7:10 per mile I'm also burning calories at a faster rate; if you're running 8-9min/mile it would make perfect sense to fuel somewhat more infrequently.

                  "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                   


                  A Dance with Monkeys

                    Heh.


                    Well, my last 50, I did 14 m/m...

                     

                    Frankly, if you are running mostly in the aerobic zone, your fuel needs are minimal.


                    A Sweetheart

                       

                       

                      In a 50, you're trying to fuel the second half of your race.  Fall behind, and at some point you are likely screwed.

                       

                       

                      Why are you only trying to fuel the second half?  Because you are using glycogen the first half?  I see my body using both. If I supply it with fuel, it will delay my body dipping into my reserves. I fuel the same at mile 4 as I do at 46.  I take a gu every 40 minutes. I have screwed up more times than I would like to admit, but I have finally found that it doesn't matter the distance for me. From the marathon to the 100, the same time schedule works well.

                      I want to do it because I want to do it.  -Amelia Earhart

                       

                      Tennessee Beer Mile Queen


                      Feeling the growl again

                         

                        Why are you only trying to fuel the second half?  Because you are using glycogen the first half?  

                         

                        Not exactly what I meant....more like you are only going to use onboard fuel for roughly have the race, you need to consume enough for pretty much the whole second half, not just a few miles at the end.  Of course the slower you go the more fat will contribute as well.

                        "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                         


                        Feeling the growl again

                           

                           

                          Frankly, if you are running mostly in the aerobic zone, your fuel needs are minimal.

                           

                          7min/mile is not aerobic for me?

                           

                          I would speculate most people's gut will process food more or less at the same rate.  I would also speculate that as you run faster there is a point at which blood is diverted from digestion enough to affect how many calories you can take in.  How fast for this to happen I don't know, but I do know that I have tried extra fuel in marathons before (sub-6 pace) and had it just sit like an uncomfortable lump in my stomach the rest of the race.

                           

                          Fat metabolism also has a limit, though I have been convinced that one can train their system to metabolize fat better.  So if you are running 14min/mile, I'm sure fat makes up a lot more of your needs than it would at 7min/mile.  I don't think it has anything to do with aerobic state though.  If I were to try a 100 (hahaha) I would certainly rethink how many calories/hr I needed to ingest and perhaps not challenge my GI tract so much.

                           

                          So when you have big variations in pace I think fueling discussions may become a bit apples and oranges.  That's why I'm interested to see what examples people can offer.

                          "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                           


                          The King of Beasts

                             

                            Why are you only trying to fuel the second half?  Because you are using glycogen the first half?  I see my body using both. If I supply it with fuel, it will delay my body dipping into my reserves. I fuel the same at mile 4 as I do at 46.  I take a gu every 40 minutes. I have screwed up more times than I would like to admit, but I have finally found that it doesn't matter the distance for me. From the marathon to the 100, the same time schedule works well.

                             

                            Yes.

                             

                            I set the timer on my watch to go off every 25-30 min.

                             

                            Its not about how little fuel you can get away with, its a fucking race people.  you are leaving time on the table if you wait an hour and 15 minutes. gel early and often. supplement at the aid stations or just fill up on water and gain 90 seconds on everyone who lingers at them.

                            "As a dreamer of dreams and a travelin' man I have chalked up many a mile. Read dozens of books about heroes and crooks, And I've learned much from both of their styles." ~ Jimmy Buffett

                             

                            "I don't see much sense in that," said Rabbit. "No," said Pooh humbly, "there isn't. But there was going to be when I began it. It's just that something happened to it along the way."”


                            Feeling the growl again

                               

                               Because you are using glycogen the first half? 

                               

                              As a post-script, I would guess in the longer races people don't so much give a crap about glycogen levels...if you're really depending on that and run it low anywhere but the end you are hosed.

                              "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                               


                              A Sweetheart

                                 I would guess in the longer races people don't so much give a crap about glycogen levels

                                Correct. Make sure you start the race topped off, then fuel as much as you can without causing GI issues.

                                 

                                Another thing, mph is pretty much a useless figure as it pertains to ultras.  A good percentage of these races are on very hilly courses, if not worse. My caloric needs do not decrease just because I am moving slower while climbing up the side of a mountain. When you get into longer races, the issue of heating the body becomes huge. Winter racing and long races almost anywhere in the country will force your body to try to warm itself, which can be a huge task, especially as you slow down during the night.  Temps that you can normally run comfortably in have you shaking horribly late in a race. The body needs consistant calories for thermoregulation even if you are at a crawl.

                                I want to do it because I want to do it.  -Amelia Earhart

                                 

                                Tennessee Beer Mile Queen

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