Self anointed title
Ostrich runner
Every now and then I realize that I really don't know shit.
http://www.runningahead.com/groups/Indy/forum
I feel pretty confident I have experience with this now...I just need to replicate it at a lower training load. Now that we have endocrine covered, school me on fueling...both in training and for the race. Oh, and 6-ish hours at 8min pace....45ish miles. F-U-C-K.
I feel pretty confident I have experience with this now...I just need to replicate it at a lower training load.
Now that we have endocrine covered, school me on fueling...both in training and for the race.
Oh, and 6-ish hours at 8min pace....45ish miles. F-U-C-K.
Training - 2 moderate speed workouts in the weeks there is no really long run and 1 in the weeks of really long runs. I would prefer to see consistent LAT work weekly and add Andy's choice in 2 speed work weeks.
I have 2 categories of really long runs I shoot for 30-35 and 40+
I am not sure you need to go much over 40.
Start with 30-35 just to have your body get over "What the hell are you doing to me man!" shock.
Then do what you want. I typically switch off in a 5 week period I will do 1 - 30-35 and 1 - 40+ and just do normal marathon type training in-between. A 50 mile race would fall into the 40+. I would consider 2 easish days before the really long run.
Long dead ... But my stench lingers !
This thread is really starting to frighten me.
"He conquers who endures" - Persius "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel
http://ncstake.blogspot.com/
Don't rub salt into the wound. I can barely get out of bed at the moment - and then it is only to either puke or shit.
Sorry, didn't know. I was just trying to be motivating.
Fuel ... training fuel = calories, electrolytes and h20
This is a major departure from marathon training - learn to eat while training.
My history - Marathon training - Try and do all runs without gels, but I would pack water. Occassionally if I knew I was light in calories I would take gels along.
2008 I was talking to someone who was in love with Endurox R4 for recoveries from long runs. I ordered some and used it for recoveries. When I trained for the 24 hour race in 2008, I trained mostly with Gels, banannas and PB&J sandwiches on long runs. I would take Endurox R4 after to get recovery started. I did try it on 2-3 of my longest runs during the run.
About a month before the 24 hour race I e-mailed Roy Pirrung - Timed race ultra legend - Sheboygan WI. He suggested Succeed
http://www.succeedscaps.com/main_amino.html
Ultra and Amino (Succeed is his sponsor - but he has used their products for 20 years). I also ordered the S-caps.
2008 FANS 24 hour race - As I previously posted I was sick and nothing went right. I did not have a crew, so I made 24 bottles of Endurox and Succeed Ultra putting the dry poweder into dry gatorade bottles, so I could grab them, add water and keep trucking.
Must in 24 hour race - Perpetual forward momentum - Stay on your feet and moving !!!!!
Endorox is very sweet and succeed is more gritty and not sweet. I could not handle the taste of Succeed - This is a personal thing. I also ate a lot form the aide station table - Pizza, sandwhiches, chocolate - I have found this does not work for me. Some people thrive on it. 30-60 minutes after eating pizza I would be at an energy low ???
Current
I train on
Endorox R4 (2 scoops in water per hour of long run training = As a recovery for any hard run)
Powerbar gels (Not sure the brand matters)
Both I purchase from here http://www.supplementwarehouse.com/?pxc=1&pxc=1&sh=1
Succeed S-caps ( I used 1 per hour in cool weather and 2 per hour in super hot for really long runs + Any time I sweat alot I take 1-2 post run)
Pro-Source Nytro Whey Extreme - One of the purest and best products for the $$$
http://www.prosource.net/product_details.aspx?item_guid=B4723196-3556-4885-BEDD-EA8D42B30DD5
Pro-Source is changing it to a different name and changing the formula - I am working with a body building friend to find a replacement, they are reducing the quality enough that we want to do a search.
Whey protein is used for 2 reasons: 1) Immediately after any hard effort (Speed or relly long run) I want to get a good dose of quickly digestible protein to muscles and 2) When I am running many miles it just hard to get enough protein, sometimes at night I know I need 50-100 grams of protein and it is just easier to use Whey protein.
I do not use Whey protein while running or racing.
Racing
1) Main source of fuel is Endurox R4 - Many people use Perpetuem or other things - 300 Calories per hour
2) Next 1-2 gels per hour - usually 1
3) I will trow in something solid to keep all the liquid in check - Last race parts of ham sandwhich on french bread
4) Bananans - 1 or 1/2 per hour as long as they taste good
5) S-caps 1-2 per hour
* The rest is a work in progress - There is a list of 1st aide on the fly items you should have at the race - Ginger for sour stomach, Tums or Pepto, Amodium (Spelling) amonst others.
** A list of 1st aide for your feet or body you should have - later
Find fuel that works for you and train with it. The average person can only process 350 calories per hour, more will give sloshy stomache. I can process 500 per hour. The legend Yianni Kourus reportedly 800+ per hour.
The King of Beasts
Cute? I'll give you fucking cute.
sure you will..
"As a dreamer of dreams and a travelin' man I have chalked up many a mile. Read dozens of books about heroes and crooks, And I've learned much from both of their styles." ~ Jimmy Buffett
"I don't see much sense in that," said Rabbit. "No," said Pooh humbly, "there isn't. But there was going to be when I began it. It's just that something happened to it along the way."”
I really do not know anything - Just hearsay and theories + What works for me.
I know Endurox R4 has many short comings as an in-race ultra fuel (Too much Magnessium), but I just can not find something else that works - I have 5 cans of stuff that has failed.
How do other runners accomplish what I do on 60-100 MPW - Damn that must be nice -
Feeling the growl again
Racing ultras tears me down, so I tend not to enter an ultra in build up.
...but running 200 mile weeks and 6000 mile years does not.
"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand
I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills
???
Lots of ways to skin the cat - Just the way that I have chosen to skin it.
Endocrin thing - I read a few places that the Endocrin system is a limiting factor in ultra-running as when it starts to shut down. Digestion, liver, kidneys etc - You race goes bad fast. So it is just a theory of mine, I better try to lightly to moderately stress it to delay that process as long as possible.
I have used Endurox occasionally...I thought the mag was the reason it was good, but I have only used it for recovery. I guess that much mag during a race could give you the...um...runs.
Fuel ... training fuel = calories, electrolytes and h20 This is a major departure from marathon training - learn to eat while training.
<<snip>>
Awesome stuff. I am going to print and save this. Looking forward to foot care.
So I brought this up with my wife last night. Her first response was "NO". Of course I explained my way around this. When she sees I am excited about something she is ALWAYS supportive.
But then she committed the cardinal sin. She said:
"But you don't have enough endurance to do that."
It's fucking on....
??? Lots of ways to skin the cat - Just the way that I have chosen to skin it.
Frightening in a good way.
Once you get a flavor of what it really takes to properly train and run an ultra and I compare that to my half ass efforts, it makes me nervous.
The good news for me is I get to sit on the bench and learn a boatload of information just by listening. BTW - that was how I learned to fuel for my marathon (one of DB's discussion on maintaining pace) and in part helped me get that 3:10. Running miles is a big part but what separates the ok from the good from the best is attention and success in the little things. Things you don't know you don't know unless you get to sit on the bench and listen to you guys.
So carry on. I find this information priceless.
I've been following this thread, too (fwiw).
"If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus
She said: "But you don't have enough endurance to do that." It's fucking on....
She said:
Ouch. Is she ok?