Former Bad Ass
I have run marathons without gels. Coincidentally, I almost broke my PR during it, even though I was doing the Goofy and had run a HM the day before. I still use the gels most of the time because I run on an empty stomach but you can easily achieve and support MP miles without anything but water (or Gatorade as provided by the course).
Damaris
And Fuzzy, that was a 4:30ish marathon, so yes, you can still do it within that range.
Oh absolutely. That's what I meant - I just think I could be convinced that the longer you are out there the more benefit you may get. Taken further, that is why ultra runners often take in more than gels. They'll eat real food.
Well for the fact that I held myself back through the early climbs and rises of the first 9 miles I will never know. I have run up to 16 miles (with the first 3 being easy) at 6:55 and faster during training without issue. If I would have done that to start this race then faded I would have a better idea but as it is, by the time I found a stretch to let loose it was after mile 10 and the sub-7:00 energy or more importantly the mentality was not there anymore. Judging by the end result my overall pace was a bit on the aggressive side, either that or I have to learn how to actually race this distance. A fact that can get lost when over-analyzing splits.
Well for the fact that I held myself back through the early climbs and rises of the first 9 miles I will never know. I have run up to 16 miles (with the first 3 being easy) at 6:55 and faster during training without issue. If I would have done that to start this race then faded I would have a better idea but as it is, by the time I found a stretch to let loose it was after mile 10 and the sub-7:00 energy or more importantly the mentality was not there anymore.
Judging by the end result my overall pace was a bit on the aggressive side, either that or I have to learn how to actually race this distance. A fact that can get lost when over-analyzing splits.
If you can ran 13 miles @ 6:55 pace in the meat of your training [no taper] then you really have the potential to carry that for the marathon assuming all things are equal. It's definitely in you [if you want it].
That said, the marathon is a tricky beast especially when you attempt to reach for your potenial. So many variables that can submarine the best laid plans.
I'm going to disagree with LTH about how marathon pace should feel. I've run 20 at various paces and I can tell you the best results were when the early pace felt relaxed. My PR race felt so easy for 18 miles, where I set [or came close to] a number of PB times along the way so maybe that race is a bit of an outlier when everything just clicked. I would agree that all of my 3:15 or faster marathons "felt fast" but ATST the pace was manageable [if that makes sense] - where I was keenly aware how quickly the mile markers came up. The thought did cross my mind, for a nano-second, how fast I was moving.
Maybe we're talking the same thing, because most of my BQ races were right on the [10 sec./mile] edge of me blowing up. I'd just dialed into the correct pace in training and fortunately I was able to excute race day.
Your comment about being conservative early - coupled with your level of traiining - and then lacking energy as early as mile 10 suggests perhaps that something was just off that day.
Youth Has No Age. ~ Picasso / 1st road race: Charleston Distance Run 15 Miler - 1974 / profile
I spent the entire race hitting mile markers a quarter mile ahead of the actual marker on the course and hoped that at some point the course would correct itself but it never did. I suppose I should have reset my watch at mile 2 when I first realized it but what's done is done. Garmin measured the course at 26.44.
I forgot to add previously...my "shortest" marathon was 26.36 miles. One could make an argument that if your GPS reads 26.2 or less the course was short. It is difficult to truly run perfect tangents, especially if there are lot of turns. After many discussions with other runners I think anything near 26.4 is not too bad.
I misspoke there, it was less a lack of energy and more a lack of desire to run at sub-7:00 at that point as the next 10 miles after that point were my best.
It could be splitting hairs but running MP is easy, relatively speaking that is but does require that I am in tune with it.
After many discussions with other runners I think anything near 26.4 is not too bad.
I agree, even more so knowing Dave ran the same course and came up 26.2. It screwed with me mentally but I got over it...and thanks for the vibe.
I have run marathons without gels.
I ran my first two with water only a single cup of Gatorade near the end of the second one.
MTA: and a cup of beer at mile 24.75 of the last two, damn that shit was good!
So confident that I could run a 3:05 that if you would have told me before the race that I would run a 3:15 I would have wondered aloud what in the hell happened that I came in 10 minutes off my goal time. Well, a fuckin marathon happened, that was no joke yo!
Rick - congrats on the huge pr and the bq. none of that just comes out of thin air. you worked for it. but like you said above...an f-in marathon happened in between. i have a hell of a time trying to dial into a pace at the outset of a marathon, but usually can do so somewhere in mile 2 to 3. it never helps (for me) at a large marathon with a bunch of folks at the start. what was your split at the half? it doesn't seem like you had a big positive split. no matter...congrats and enjoy your recovery, great report too!
marathon pr - 3:16
Dave ran the same course and came up 26.2.
No. Actually I came up at about 25.5, because of the distance lost in the tunnel which my Garmin did not recover (but yours did for some reason). I fudged my log to add 0.7 miles to the mystery interval & make an even 26.2. I later went back in & re-fudged to make it 26.4, which I figured was more realistic. It's amazing how frustrating it is to us Garmin slaves to not have a complete set of splits.
Dave
a cup of beer at mile 24.75, damn that shit was good!
+1
I saw Dave's response. I should re-state my opinion above to take into account running around tall buildings, tunnels, etc. That can definitely eff with the gps.
This went through my head during the first half of yesterday's race. It is advertised as flat and fast and may very well be according to most, just not me. Yes, MP is definitely not a stroll in the park. This may sound weird but I know I have it by the sound the air makes moving by my ears. For me it is the closest thing to sustainable flight. Of the three R's (regret, remorse, relief) I most feel regret for not getting a chance to fly during my race yesterday for any length of time, as I had done a million times while training this summer. By the time I did get the chance during the second half of the race, the pop was just not there.
This went through my head during the first half of yesterday's race. It is advertised as flat and fast and may very well be according to most, just not me.
Yes, MP is definitely not a stroll in the park. This may sound weird but I know I have it by the sound the air makes moving by my ears. For me it is the closest thing to sustainable flight.
Of the three R's (regret, remorse, relief) I most feel regret for not getting a chance to fly during my race yesterday for any length of time, as I had done a million times while training this summer. By the time I did get the chance during the second half of the race, the pop was just not there.
You should run Toronto. Not only is it advertised as flat and fast, but also festive. Flat. Fast. Festive.
I actually talked about that before and have their page bookmarked, who can beat festive or a weekend in Toronto!
I crossed the timing mat right around 1:36 for the half Ric, so about 2 minutes and some change on the plus side maybe.
Mmmmm...beer
Great job Rick, congrats on the huge PR and BQ!
I've seen a lot of people recommend doing manual splits on your Garmin for a marathon, that way you're tracking with the actual mile markers on the course. I'm gonna try that for Richmond next month.
Sounds like we might have a pretty epic FE at Boston '16.
-Dave
My running blog
Goals | sub-18 5k | sub-3 marathon 2:56:46!!