"A race wrecked by tenperature." Story of my life.
But you can travel! :-)
PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013
Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013
18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010
Former Bad Ass
Which is what I have been doing. However, training for a Fall race is fucking hard down here. We are already in the mid 90s in heat index and we never saw a drop in dewpoint (70-75 dewpoint since January). Yesterday's 8 felt like a LR.
Damaris
Thank God you bought a TM. It should improve things a lot for you, just like it does for us in winter.
race obsessed
Interesting... Not sure what to make of it. LRB, I agree with you for the most part. I am only now starting to realize that it's not all about the course (flat, downhill, hilly, etc...), but it's also about the temperature that day. I will be more careful in the future when I select my races. I can't justify training like a horse for 4 months only to have a race wrecked by the temperature. For now, I'm already registered and the trip is planned. Sly, so taking that into consideration, if I calculate quickly for an average of 70F overall, it's only about a 3-4 minute loss (not considering the humidity and dew point). A little more for a 75F average, but it would be unlikely that the whole race would be at 75F (though possible, it's a 9 a.m. start)
Interesting... Not sure what to make of it.
LRB, I agree with you for the most part. I am only now starting to realize that it's not all about the course (flat, downhill, hilly, etc...), but it's also about the temperature that day. I will be more careful in the future when I select my races. I can't justify training like a horse for 4 months only to have a race wrecked by the temperature. For now, I'm already registered and the trip is planned.
Sly, so taking that into consideration, if I calculate quickly for an average of 70F overall, it's only about a 3-4 minute loss (not considering the humidity and dew point). A little more for a 75F average, but it would be unlikely that the whole race would be at 75F (though possible, it's a 9 a.m. start)
I can tell you what my coach tells me:
You can plan and schedule a race for the perfect conditions, but race day is always a toss-up. Everyone has to race in the same conditions. ie: I wouldn't worry about it. Now there are exceptions - a Half Marathon in Texas in August will definitely be hot. So you might want to avoid that... but Spring and Fall who knows...
My goal HM was on March 1st - 70F and 100% humidity sandwiched by two weeks that were in the 30-40's wtf?!? but it happens.
As far as temperatures - (I fight with myself and over-estimate all the time - but it is easier being removed and not invested)
I think you should play it a little more conservative:
1. As LtH so succinctly pointed out last week? you start too fast (almost all of us do).
2. Since this is morning, you will be running the hardest part of the race in the highest temperatures.
I would suggest you start at a 75F pace (or the expected end temperature) and aim for a negative or at least even split. Meaning you should be fresh at 10k and feel pretty decent at 21k. At the 3/4 or 31k when the temperatures start really hurting and slowing everyone else down you should be just entering the 'work' zone. Passing other runners will energize and you take it home.
Yup sucks... I don't have to deal with such high dewpoints all the time like you do, just blazing sun and heat. But hard work in the heat and humidity really pays off in Fall races.
Besides hating treadmills in general, the massive improvement I have seen by working hard in outside conditions all summer long really sinks it in for me.
Sly, this is great concrete advice. Thanks for reminding me of my weaknesses, I really need to be kept in check. Starting at a pace adjusted for +/-75F and trying to negative split makes sense. Thanks a lot!
But such pretty charts.
Like!
Everyone focuses just on temperature but there is more to it than just temps. There is an enormous difference between 65 with low humidity and 65 with high humidity. Probably my best race ever was my Boston qualifier. It was 61 degrees with nearly 100% humidity at the start. I was hoping to run around 3:03 (6:59 pace) and all of my workouts told me I had a good shot at doing so. In that weather though, I knew that was unrealistic. So, I backed off and started running 7:10-7:15 splits. That's slower than the simplistic formula of 1 second per mile for every degree over 55 but people who ignored the humidity paid the price.
There were a lot of 10-20 minute positive splits that day. One runner was nearly 2 minutes ahead of me at Mile 24 and I beat him by 30 seconds. I passed people who were walking at Mile 15. I ran an 80 second positive split. Make no mistake, if you truly overheat, you'll walk. You don't have a choice.
If I were starting a marathon and it was 65 degrees at the start, given that it's likely going to be more like 75 by the finish, the absolute last thing I'd do is aim for a negative split. You're going to be slowing and there's not much you can do. If you negative split it, you'll have to slow to a crawl at the start. Assuming low humidity, I'd start 10-15 seconds per mile slower than goal pace and then just hang on for dear life after Mile 20. If the humidity was high, I might back off by as much as 20-30 seconds.
Short term goal: 17:59 5K
Mid term goal: 2:54:59 marathon
Long term goal: To say I've been a runner half my life. (I started running at age 45).
I understand completely.
For the record, here were my splits in that race:
Mile 1 - 7:23 Mile 2 - 7:01 Mile 3 - 7:04 Mile 4 - 7:05 Mile 5 - 7:03 Mile 6 - 7:05 (Recognized here that I needed to ease up a bit)Mile 7 - 7:10 Mile 8 - 7:08 Mile 9 - 7:12 Mile 10 - 7:10 Mile 11 - 7:12 Mile 12 - 7:04 Mile 13 - 7:05 (Got pissed here that I ran this fast)Mile 14 - 7:14 Mile 15 - 7:09 Mile 16 - 7:10 Mile 17 - 7:04 Mile 18 - 7:13 Mile 19 - Unknown Mile 20 - 14:38 (7:17) (Now you can see what the heat starts doing to me)Mile 21 - 7:16 Mile 22 - 7:13 Mile 23 - 7:20 Mile 24 - 7:24 Mile 25 - 7:11 Mile 26 - 7:10 Mile 26.2 - 1:32 (7:00)
I agree with LTH's suggestions...except 61F and 100% humidity is not really humid.
KillJoyFuckStick
I'll throw direct sun into the equation also. There is a huge difference between 70 mostly in the shade and 70 in the direct sun. Temperature is always taken in the shade so factor in that also. 70 in the direct sun is going to be more like 80+.
You people have issues
There has been a lot of talk here recently about how the heat has affected many of us in our spring races. I have another race coming up at the end of June. According to the race site, the average temperature for the day's morning is 65F and could be higher. So, how many seconds exactly am I supposed to slow down per mile? And I should do this right from the start, is that correct? In retrospect, I now think that I really was in 3:25 shape when I ran my marathon two weeks ago. My LRs were consistently proving it. I ran the first half of my race right on target for 3:25, but I faded a lot in the second half when it reached 75F. So, this time, knowing that I cannot realistically expect a 3:25 in 65F+ temps, how do I go about choosing a pace? 10 seconds slower per mile? 20 seconds? What do you people who run in warmer weather think? It's easy to say "Run slower", but it's hard to know exactly by how much. No one wants to leave too much on a course by running too slow because of the heat.
There has been a lot of talk here recently about how the heat has affected many of us in our spring races. I have another race coming up at the end of June. According to the race site, the average temperature for the day's morning is 65F and could be higher. So, how many seconds exactly am I supposed to slow down per mile? And I should do this right from the start, is that correct?
In retrospect, I now think that I really was in 3:25 shape when I ran my marathon two weeks ago. My LRs were consistently proving it. I ran the first half of my race right on target for 3:25, but I faded a lot in the second half when it reached 75F. So, this time, knowing that I cannot realistically expect a 3:25 in 65F+ temps, how do I go about choosing a pace? 10 seconds slower per mile? 20 seconds? What do you people who run in warmer weather think? It's easy to say "Run slower", but it's hard to know exactly by how much. No one wants to leave too much on a course by running too slow because of the heat.
Then why are you even considering another marathon in June? Why would anyone run a warm weather marathon? I don't even like doing long runs in warm weather. I think part of the issue here is running too many marathons. I don't see a point, assuming your goal is fast times vs merit badges, of running multiple [or more than 2-3 marathons] a year. Someone once said that you only have so many [marathon] bullets. Don't waste them on sub-par races. Again, I assume your goal is racing vs collecting finisher medals.
Youth Has No Age. ~ Picasso / 1st road race: Charleston Distance Run 15 Miler - 1974 / profile
Marathon Maniacs Palladium Level!
No! Marathon Maniac thingamajig is not for me. Although I completely understand how it can become addictive to run so many and why people love doing it. It's not as easy as it appears to run such a long distance, even if slowly, as often as those nuts (cough, cough Damaris... ) do it. It's very taxing on the body after a while.
I'll answer Moth's questions a little later, when I have more time.
LTH, your splits look amazingly even to me. I'll go with Sly's suggestion to start about 10-15 secs slower, but I will adjust to even slower if needed, or kick it up a bit in the last few miles if the day allows it.