Runs4Sanity
http://www.runnersworld.com/races/injured-mud-runners-sue-race-organizers
Personally for me, I'll avoid whatever looks too dangerous or too risky for me. I can understand to a point by the description of this "gravity's revenge" but I'd like to see a video or image of it so I can get a better understanding. Signing up for the Spartan Sprint, there is a notice that you as a runner are taking the risk and that the organizers are not held liable for any injury, doesn't that actually protect the organizers or.... no?
*Do It For Yourself, Do It Because They Said It Was Impossible, Do It Because They Said You Were Incapable*
PRs
5k - 24:15 (7:49 min/mile pace)
10k - 51:47 (8:16 min/mile pace)
15k -1:18:09 (8:24 min/mile pace)
13.1 - 1:53:12 (8:39 min/mile pace)
26:2 - 4:14:55 (9:44 min/mile)
""When I did this event and did that obstacle, I felt like it was beyond dangerous," Davis told KOMONews. "It's not something a reasonable person would do.""
Then why did she do it?
Sorry, but people going into these kind of events should have some idea that they are risking injury to participate. It just seems kind of silly to me.
"...You have to have faith, to know that you can do what you want to do." -Joseph Nzau
""When I did this event and did that obstacle, I felt like it was beyond dangerous," Davis told KOMONews. "It's not something a reasonable person would do."" Then why did she do it? Sorry, but people going into these kind of events should have some idea that they are risking injury to participate. It just seems kind of silly to me.
That's kind of what I was thinking.
Are we there, yet?
Those waivers aren't a blanket protection for the organizers, but I expect it would take proof of some sort of gross negligence to get around them. How clearly are the risks delinated by the organizers? Are there hidden obstacles the participants are unaware of and therefore can't take appropriate measures of safety? Are there misleading "safety" elements, e.g water under an obstacle with a large drop but the water isn't deep enough to protect from injury in the event of a fall? It was only a matter of time before something like this would happen.
2024 Races:
03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles
05/11 - D3 50K 05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour
06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.
While I agree with you, for the most part, this obstacle in question was apparently somewhat obscured visually... and honestly, sometimes you simply don't know whether something is evil or not until after you do it. I think it is dumb these people are suing, but I didn't have much of an issue with that quote. What Davis might have been thinking was "in retrospect after almost killing me, that's not something a reasonable person would jump into. We couldn't tell." But, yikes. It is one of those judgey statements that sounds like he's trying to make something out to be factual... really, that's just his opinion. Lots of semantics around what a "reasonable person" is (technically, if you signed the waiver, you could be defined as 'reasonable' wrt the event) and what is on the yes/no list.
I started an identical thread in the main board a couple days ago, btw.
I have a feeling that the more lawsuits that get started, the harder some of these will find the permitting process.
sugnim
There is much to be said for individual risk management and personal responsibility.
That applies to the RD too.
Sometimes when you are in the middle of something like that, you are so motivated to move forward you don't even think about not continuing, even when it seems insane. "Others are doing it, and so must I."
I haven't done any mud runs, but as a long distance hiker, when crossing ice chutes with several hundred foot drops, I've had the thought that, "If I were sane, I wouldn't be doing this." But I kept going, because I was determined to reach my goal.
Obviously, there are risks in doing obstacle races or even trail races. People can and do get injured and worse. Deciding whether the RD was irresponsible in setting up the course or if the runner just had bad luck may not be easy - though if there were several broken bones at a single obstacle, I'd say that whoever set up the course might bear some blame.
This is good advice. And it also sounds good from a finger wave perspective.... but seriously... we've all been in certain situations in our lives when we could not tell ahead of time, "daaaammmmmn", and didn't really know what was what until we were in the middle of things. I still disagree with the lawsuit angle, but there comes a point... I'm not sure where it is... where organizers of events cross a line of irresponsibility. As with many things, the line itself is hard to define, but in polar cases sometimes it is easy to tell what is over the line. This may or may not have been it... but it is coming. And knowing this, I still say permits and insurance and stuff is going to get harder for some orgs to get unless they do a really over-the-top job of having their collective shit together when it comes to safety and emergency planning. The fly-by-night carnival approach won't do.
srlopez I rarely go to other parts of the forum
This is good advice. And it also sounds good from a finger wave perspective....
A bit, possibly. After working in law firms for several years both on the plaintiff & defense side, I have come to believe that it is best to plan for yourself, provide for yourself, take responsibility for yourself, and clean up your own messes when they occur. Of course, if everybody did this, I'd be out of a job.
Man, I feel bad for her, because, OUCH, 11 screws, but all mud runs and especially military style ones seem to be a colossally bad idea to me. You need to assess your own risk.
Yeah, I feel sorry for her. I would be just as pissed of as she is, heck I would be outraged if I broke something while out on the trails just running for fun.
One of the things you can set up to think through these issues are hypothetical problems. Start with an extreme hypothetical.
You sign up for an event in which you absolve the group putting on the event of all liability. However, the event organizers lie. Instead of a 2 foot drop over a blind obstacle, it's a 4 foot drop. The purpose of the deception is to capture the surprised look on competitors' faces as they fall farther than anticipated. The organizers then sell the video to TruTV for a series on "America's Dumbest Runners." Would the liability waiver be effective? No. Why? Because for any liability waiver to be effective, you have to fully understand the risks of the activity and it is the responsibility of the organizer to ensure that you do fully understand those risks.
In West Virginia, whitewater rafting is a big industry. Thousands of people come here to engage in the activity and, sure enough a few get killed each year and a whole bunch get hurt. The river ain't no Disney ride. Rafting companies make you sign a waiver and there is even a statute absolving them of liability. Still, they have the obligation to follow industry guidelines for safety. So, if they someone died and their life vest was not the right type or if the guide was improperly trained, the rafting company could still be liable regardless of the waiver.
Thus, a couple of key questions are whether the organizers took reasonable safety precautions and whether the participants understood the risks.
And I still vote to put anyone who participates in this kind of nonsense on an "America's Dumbest Runners" show.
Short term goal: 17:59 5K
Mid term goal: 2:54:59 marathon
Long term goal: To say I've been a runner half my life. (I started running at age 45).
That is like suing because you got hurt running with the bulls.