Will run for scenery.
Well, like all rules, you have to decide if following it for the sake of the rule (or the system of rules it belongs to) is important to you, if the moral principle behind the rule matters to you, if the personal consequences of breaking the rule matter to you, if breaking the rule is causing harm to anyone, etc.
When I drive in a 65 MPH speed zone, I am pretty comfortable driving at 75 MPH if the conditions allow. It's clearly a violation of the rule, but I'm willing to live with all the negative consequences. If I felt like the people enforcing that particular rule cared about a 10 MPH excess, I would change.
If I decide not to hold up a liquor store, one factor in my decision is that it is against the rules. But there are many other good reasons.
Mostly, where the law is concerned, I think living in a society where laws are clearly defined and determined (more or less) by the common will of the people is a huge, huge plus; I support that by generally following laws even if I disagree with them. ( I do stop at red lights at 3:330 AM on completely deserted streets.)
In the case of a running race, most of the rules are there for a good reason. Doing anything that makes the race less enjoyable for others, creates additional headaches or cuts into the profits of the race organization, etc. are things I would definitely avoid. In the case of a mid-to-back-of-the-pack runner wearing a paid-for bib, I just don't see any real harm being done. There is a grave danger of not being allowed to run in future LA marathons if the race officials track you down and decide to prosecute you; so that is a risk you have to consider.
Stupid feet!
Stupid elbow!
SheCan
I agree with Moth about pulling out before crossing the finish line. If you were a normal slow poke like me, there'd be no problem. But you're a Boston Qualifier, so if you ran for me, and even ran your slowest run, because I'm a female, you'd end up qualifying me also, and probably end up 1st place in my AG. I don't know your friend or his/her AG, but I know that you seem to always put forth your best efforts. Even without intending to do so, you just might accidentally start running a great race, then let that competitive nature take over and end up running faster than your last marathon. And yeah, if it happens, I'm a "told you so" kind of person.
Cherie
"We do not become the people who this world needs simply by turning our backs on anyone we don’t like, trust, or deem healthy enough to be in our presence. " ---- Shasta Nelson
Am I allowed to post here? I see I've been banned.
I was going to say you don't have to worry about it, because Baboon isn't a mod, but apparently he is. Does this mean I need to start being nicer to him? Bah, not worth it.
Dave
Oh, I agree. I just find strange when people (not anyone specifically) try to find reasons why breaking the rules in this instance is OK.
The key is that the rules under discussion are part of a contract, and it is neither illegal nor inherently unethical to break a contract. If you violate the contract, it is enforceable against you, which in this case is clearly defined as forfeiting your race fee and prohibiting you from participating in a certain race or races in the future. (Banditing is a separate issue involving theft because there was no contract between the parties to begin with.)
The analysis being performed in this thread, like so many others before it, is whether it is unethical to violate this specific contract in this specific way. Ethics are different in every society, so majority rules is not an unreasonable way to conduct this analysis. In this case, the consensus seems to be that as other runners are not harmed by the OP's participation, breaking the contract is an ethical option. The onerousness of the rules is commentary, but the lack of harm is the reason most "in favor" folks are giving for why they are okay with breaking the contract. The same arbitrary rules apply to most races, but as a forum we are much more comfortable with violating them in anonymous large races than in small races where your presence, even without an official time, can affect the results.
---------
Just as an interesting discussion topic...If it is unacceptable to break any rules, what do you do with bankruptcy law? In essence, it is a set of rules governing how you break many other rules. Rather a paradox...
Former Bad Ass
Haha. Not banned. Although baboon is pushing for it.
Damaris
The key is that the rules under discussion are part of a contract, and it is neither illegal nor inherently unethical to break a contract. If you violate the contract, it is enforceable against you, which in this case is clearly defined as forfeiting your race fee and prohibiting you from participating in a certain race or races in the future. (Banditing is a separate issue involving theft because there was no contract between the parties to begin with.) The analysis being performed in this thread, like so many others before it, is whether it is unethical to violate this specific contract in this specific way. Ethics are different in every society, so majority rules is not an unreasonable way to conduct this analysis. In this case, the consensus seems to be that as other runners are not harmed by the OP's participation, breaking the contract is an ethical option. The onerousness of the rules is commentary, but the lack of harm is the reason most "in favor" folks are giving for why they are okay with breaking the contract. The same arbitrary rules apply to most races, but as a forum we are much more comfortable with violating them in anonymous large races than in small races where your presence, even without an official time, can affect the results. --------- Just as an interesting discussion topic...If it is unacceptable to break any rules, what do you do with bankruptcy law? In essence, it is a set of rules governing how you break many other rules. Rather a paradox...
Well, the bankruptcy rules supersedes any contract before the bankruptcy so it is not breaking a rule when the federal law allows you to do so. Although I agree that canceling a lease when you file bankruptcy is kind of screwing the other side.
BTW, that's the area of law I practice under. There are still things that bankruptcy law does not allow which I prosecute.
You're not?????
Tom, 'er um, LRB. It's you. I mean it's me!
Interesting. I guess for me, I simply do not care enough to take a stance either way.
I would like to inject however (PET PEEVE ALERT), that if you are going to stop at an aid station, you look behind you as you approach it and position yourself accordingly to ensure that no one else is affected by your decision to stop running in the middle of a race.
Well, the bankruptcy rules supersedes any contract before the bankruptcy so it is not breaking a rule when the federal law allows you to do so. Although I agree that canceling a lease when you file bankruptcy is kind of screwing the other side. BTW, that's the area of law I practice under. There are still things that bankruptcy law does not allow which I prosecute.
That works - the bankruptcy law is part of the UCC that the other contracts are formed under.
Or to put it another way, some rules are made to be broken?
ETA - glad to see you posting (apparently) unencumbered by narcotics. I assume that means you are doing well.
That works - the bankruptcy law is part of the UCC that the other contracts are formed under. Or to put it another way, some rules are made to be broken? ETA - glad to see you posting (apparently) unencumbered by narcotics. I assume that means you are doing well.
Haha, yes. Yes to the first and the second. I have the prescription but have not even fulfill it. Ibuprofen has been enough so far. Except when I cough I wish I could put a hammer through my head from the pain that causes. And I am coughing a lot since intubation did not go well during surgery.
faster than a glacier
Technical breaking of the rule? Sure. Moral issue where Jack should feel bad if he does it? Nah (IMO) There's no way this would negatively affect anyone else (outside of the emergency contact thing which is easily avoided by putting your on info on the bib) and nothing is being taken or used that wasn't paid for, so I personally don't see any issue with it.
A couple of weeks ago I had a ticket to a show that I couldn't use. It was technically non-transferable, said so right on the ticket. Should I have just tossed the ticket in the trash instead of giving it to my friend? I don't think so. He used it and had a good time. So we're big ole' rule breakers but I'm ok with it.
Barking Mad To Run
Jack, I think you should just go in disguise as the guy who is giving you the bib...but dress up and run in an Oski mascot costume so nobody recognizes you!
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." Theodore Roosevelt
Like.
Youth Has No Age. ~ Picasso / 1st road race: Charleston Distance Run 15 Miler - 1974 / profile
Agree...plus it's the LA Marathon which has had poor to mediocre mgmt over the years, so do it becuz they don't know any better. (I know, bad logic...whatever).
This bothers me less than people running without paying for the bib.
marathon pr - 3:16
Haha!
Are we there, yet?
... but saying breaking a rule because it's not fair or strict is not OK....
Civil disobedience?
2024 Races:
03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles
05/11 - D3 50K 05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour
06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.