I have a friend who is running a half marathon five weeks out from a marathon. Now I know some of you would not do that so that is understood, but if you were to do it and for the ones who would, how would you go about selecting your half marathon pace for it?
This particular friend would probably not want to run it at the marathon pace they are training at because he she could do that own her own, but is there a compelling case to make for running it at marathon pace?
The current thought process is to try to run it 20 seconds per mile faster than marathon pace which would be inline with her his current VDOT value of 55. The caveat to that though is that he is not training at his current marathon pace VDOT value of 55 but one value point below it at 54. Should half marathon pace then be at 54 as well? That would be about 17 seconds per mile faster.
The other thought is to run it 10 seconds per mile faster which would actually be the marathon pace VDOT value of 55, which should be something feasible but perhaps not as challenging.
Any help, advice or insight into this matter regardless of if you use the VDOT method or some other would be greatly appreciated by all three of us.
Good gravy, man - step away from the charts and just race the race.
Do you really think you can so precisely execute a 3 second per mile difference one way or the other? If someone told me, okay, go run 2 6:03 miles, then 2 6:00 miles, I'd probably say "fuck off". 54, 55, 20 seconds, 17 seconds. Yeesh. Just RACE. It'll work itself out.
Come all you no-hopers, you jokers and roguesWe're on the road to nowhere, let's find out where it goes
Put me in the camp of those who wouldn't race a half at that point. But since you're asking, I'd race that bad boy. I can run MP on my own. Of course if your friend wants to practice MP with fuel and drinking out of those little cups, then go for it!
I wouldn't race to VDOT, but rather, I'd let VDOT be a product of my races and then train accordingly.
Good luck to your friend!
I wouldn't race to VDOT, but rather, I'd let VDOT be a product of my races and then train accordingly. Good luck to your friend!
And THIS exactly.
race obsessed
LRB
If 'she' had a 54/55 Vdot that would be highly impressive, putting her in/near a 9 Elite level per Daniels.
On to your question:
Since this is a tune up race, (similar to mine coming up) you run it fatigued with no rest. You run it by feel and you kick ass. Fatigued will throttle the first few miles.
uʍop ǝpᴉsdn sǝʇᴉɹʍ ʇI
LRB If 'she' had a 54/55 Vdot that would be highly impressive, putting her in/near a 9 Elite level per Daniels. On to your question: Since this is a tune up race, (similar to mine coming up) you run it fatigued with no rest. You run it by feel and you kick ass. Fatigued will throttle the first few miles.
I remember I ran a 10k five weeks out from a marathon and I was so damn tired. Like you said, Sly, I ran by feel and tried to kick ass. I barely missed a pr on tired legs. It's amazing what training does.
LRB: tell your friend to listen to you. You know your stuff and you know what is best. Just freakin' go for it.
I remember I ran a 10k five weeks out from a marathon and I was so damn tired. Like you said, Sly, I ran by feel and tried to kick ass. I barely missed a pr on tired legs. It's amazing what training does. LRB: tell your friend to listen to you. You know your stuff and you know what is best. Just freakin' go for it.
Hmmm, I did three [3] 10ks the last 8 weeks, and two in the last three weeks, before my 2nd fastest grand master marathon. The 10k two weeks out is my grand master PB. I was suffering my bronchitis, began the week of my last 10k, which probably cost me my [GM] PB.
Youth Has No Age. ~ Picasso / 1st road race: Charleston Distance Run 15 Miler - 1974 / profile
My friend is running a half 6 weeks out from his marathon. He has been training to a marathon pace based on his 5k/10k paces, which he knows is not really valid but is doing it anyway. His last half time (and most certainly his last marathon) doesn't really justify it. So he is basically going to shoot for a half time in the ballpark of something that would predict out to his goal marathon pace (which he has been training to already), based on any of the race time predictors out there. Not sure whether it would change the training at this point, but would give him some idea whether he really has any shot at his goal marathon time.
Of course my friend doesn't really know what he is doing, and can't tell a VDOT from a VSOP. But I know your friend well, and he/she is WAY more analytical about these things than my friend.
Dave
I'm not a big fan of using a half as my marathon tune up [too damn draining] but if you're going to race then race, and if you''re running at sub-max effort that's what your quality workouts are for. Obviously, there are exceptions but generally speaking. That close to a goal race you want to dial in your "hurt meter" - which is why I chose the 10k as my tune up distance..
Are we there, yet?
Five weeks out - race it and go for a PB if you can.
2024 Races:
03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles
05/11 - D3 50K 05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour
06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.
Five weeks out marathon day, you race that sucker like if there were no tomorrow. Then you use the finish time to readjust your race goal if needed. Time to be realistic. And forget that running a HM at marathon pace silliness.
PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013
Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013
18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010
But I know your friend well, and he/she is WAY more analytical about these things than my friend.
I AM TOO! Wait, what?
I'm not a big fan of using a half as my marathon tune up [too damn draining] but if you're going to race then race, and if you''re running at sub-max effort that's what your quality workouts are for. Obviously, there are exceptions but generally speaking.
The exception this year was a 10k where I could not run half marathon pace two weeks out from it, but the wind chill was sub-zero F.
Agree with the sub-max effort thought. I would not bother unless conditions were such that it could not be avoided as in the example above.
Thanks peeps!
The idea of racing it to my current fitness or all out was always there based on conditions and/or how I felt race day morning.
This is not a goal race so the thought here was to assign a task or goal for the race but maybe that is not something I need to worry with at this point.
I was just honestly looking at all the options, something I do before every event. I suppose that is over-thinking things but having a fall back plan has worked well for me in the past.
Where the half marathon within marathon training is concerned however, I do not have any experience, thus was the impetus for the thread. And so I just thought I would ask.
Wait what? What about your he/she friend?
I know that you will race it, but what about your friend...