I am still impressed by what you can accomplish, wow!
Ron's PRs 5K 24:14 (12/07/2013); Half Marathon 1:53:33 (5/26/2013)
Jess runs for bacon
That was pretty damn impressive for a fail. Congrats on the 15 second PR. It's hard to believe the heat didn't play some role. On a cooler day with a more optimal warm-up, you'll knock some more time off. I look forward to reading about the next one.
That was pretty damn impressive for a fail. Congrats on the 15 second PR.
It's hard to believe the heat didn't play some role. On a cooler day with a more optimal warm-up, you'll knock some more time off. I look forward to reading about the next one.
Agreed. Only LRB would call a 15 second PR failing miserably
regardless, I will say congrats. no expert on this but the warmer weather and longish warm-up sound like they were a factor. I do think dropping 50 sec on a 5k at this point is a tall order. but looks like you will go sub 19. learn from it as I'm sure you will and give'm hell next time.
marathon pr - 3:16
Former Bad Ass
I have to warm up with 3-4 miles for 5Ks to release my asthma symptoms. So not all one size fits all. Otherwise, I have an asthma attack during the race.
I say.... #1. HEAT #2. WARMUP ABOUT 10 minutes too long. No solution for heat. I hate it myself and it will kill an otherwise good run. (The exact reason I'm sitting here now reading this) But I've come to find that warmups over 10 to 15 minutes tend to be counterproductive. I will even make my "warmup" longer than 15 minutes if it includes dynamic stretching (leg swings, kicks, skips, etc.) but the running, striding, sprinting portion of it will still never exceed 15 minutes. My fastest 5k (22:36) included about 12 minutes total running. That is about the mark (sometimes sooner but rarely ever longer) that my joints, lungs and brain are primed for efficient running. *I* think that you find a cooler day and cut the priming a bit and sub 19 is yours.
I say....
#1. HEAT
#2. WARMUP ABOUT 10 minutes too long.
No solution for heat. I hate it myself and it will kill an otherwise good run. (The exact reason I'm sitting here now reading this)
But I've come to find that warmups over 10 to 15 minutes tend to be counterproductive. I will even make my "warmup" longer than 15 minutes if it includes dynamic stretching (leg swings, kicks, skips, etc.) but the running, striding, sprinting portion of it will still never exceed 15 minutes.
My fastest 5k (22:36) included about 12 minutes total running. That is about the mark (sometimes sooner but rarely ever longer) that my joints, lungs and brain are primed for efficient running.
*I* think that you find a cooler day and cut the priming a bit and sub 19 is yours.
Damaris
Thanks peeps!
My warm up was typical, I have done that or something similar (up to 3 miles) for all eight of my events this year. Granted, none of them were run in temps that exceeded 65 degrees, so there is that.
I am not oppressed to revising my pre-race routine, it's just that I have become so comfortable with it, that it is literally second nature. My next four events (July & August) will all likely be run in steamboat conditions, and none of them are goal races or have high expectations attached to them so that will be a good time to experiment with that whole thing.
Regarding looking at the Garmin, I'm trying to do better...I mean now, after today. ; ) I literally heard Gville screaming at me at one point during that 1st mile!
Seriously though, the old me would have slowed down when I saw 5:50, so I am satisfied that I at least knew what goal pace felt like. The rest of the race I was running at what I thought I was so that was good as well.
The critique is appreciated, thanks!
Rich, if you will look in my RR, you'll see that my warm up is fairly extensive as well. Garmin said I put in 3.5 miles on my warm up this morning. My question is not the length of your warm up but the intensity. Take a look at mine and see what you think. I got most of that from Mike (Moth) and it has worked very well for me. I don't go out at an insane pace but I am ready to go at race pace right from the start.
Short term goal: 17:59 5K
Mid term goal: 2:54:59 marathon
Long term goal: To say I've been a runner half my life. (I started running at age 45).
Smaller By The Day
I was watching a "Thirsty Thursday" video by Jack Daniels the other day about warmups. As someone else stated, they aren't one size fits all, but he did mention running 2-3 minutes at or very near goal pace before the race. It made sense. He said that when you run intervals, or repeats, your first is rarely your best. So, why would you expect your first 2-3 minutes of 5K pace to be your best? Get it out of the way in your warmup. That really hit home with me.
There was some other good stuff in there, but it doesn't seem relevant and I don't want to derail the conversation.
Improvements
Weight 100 pounds lost
5K 31:02 Sept. 2012 / 23:36 Sept. 2013 (Same Course)
10K 48:59 April 2013
HM 2:03:56 Nov. 2012 / 1:46:50 March 2013
MARATHON 3:57:33 Nov. 2013
Well shiny PR anyway but I'd say the heat made the w/u a bit too long but the head did cost you a bit too.
Rick, if you will look in my RR, you'll see that my warm up is fairly extensive as well. Garmin said I put in 3.5 miles on my warm up this morning. My question is not the length of your warm up but the intensity. Take a look at mine and see what you think. I got most of that from Mike (Moth) and it has worked very well for me. I don't go out at an insane pace but I am ready to go at race pace right from the start.
FYP.
Yes, I have seen your warm up and/or variations of it many times. Mine is dialed back just a bit but otherwise, I am ready for race pace from the word go as well.
Ironically, my race day warm up is similar to my twice weekly speed work sessions, where I run from home for a mile, or up to three to the track (depending on how I feel that day) then do a couple few laps at tempo pace before I get to it. That's good stuff right there, thanks.
Awood, Daniels speaks about that in his book as well, and as a result, I often find that my best reps are my mid to later reps within a given session...when I properly pace myself and all things are equal that is.
Resident Historian
Effects of heat: Yes, but not 34 seconds worth. I don't think it was in the cards today
Taking 50 seconds off in one shot - unlikely at the best of times, today was not. A 15 sec. PR is an indication of how much you have improved. Keep at it., you'll get it.
Warmup- distance and intensity: Sounds about right to me. You run enough that 3 miles of warmup isn't going to tire you, and as Awood noted above, 2-3 minutes at race speed is recommended by Daniels and others (and longboat ).
Neil
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------“Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I'm here to tell you that fast is better. I've always believed this, in spite of the trouble it's caused me. - Hunter S. Thompson
I have to be honest. I was so green as a runner the first time I read that book, it could have been in Chinese. The second time I read it, it could have been in Latin (I recognized certain words...lol). I'm in the process of reading it again. I'm constantly looking back at specific parts. I don't know for sure, because I didn't have a training log in the beginning, but I think I started running about this time last year.
FYP. Yes, I have seen your warm up and/or variations of it many times. Mine is dialed back just a bit but otherwise, I am ready for race pace from the word go as well. Ironically, my race day warm up is similar to my twice weekly speed work sessions, where I run from home for a mile, or up to three to the track (depending on how I feel that day) then do a couple few laps at tempo pace before I get to it. That's good stuff right there, thanks. Awood, Daniels speaks about that in his book as well, and as a result, I often find that my best reps are my mid to later reps within a given session...when I properly pace myself and all things are equal that is.
Are we there, yet?
You don't think heat can have a drastic effect on racing? Look at what happened to the favorite, Bridget Franek, over the last couple laps in the women's 3000m SC today at Nationals. Given the heat and the wind that time should be quite acceptable.
2024 Races:
03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles
05/11 - D3 50K 05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour
06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.
dude i remember the first time you announced you were going to do a sub 20 5k and i was thinking "yeah right". And you blew my expectations away. You've been eating clean and running your ass off. It's just a matter of time before you reach your goal.
Congrats Rick, not what you wanted but still a PR in steamy conditions, great job.
I am satisfied that I at least knew what goal pace felt like.
That may be important. Now that you know where you are, you know where you have to go.
Don't feel bad. I had to read it twice to fully understand all of the concepts there.