Late to the party, but that's never stopped me from chiming in before.

Couple of random thoughts and questions.

1.  Daniels projects a difference of 3 to 4 seconds per mile for each 5 degrees above 60 for a 3:30 marathoner.  So some of the earlier 5 second recommendations seem appropriate.

2.  Agree completely with the direct sun comments.  As I have said on more than one occasion regarding my epic fail in Quebec in 2012, it was 87 degrees in the shade, and there was no shade.

3.  Question - does heat affect some more than others (duh)?  And can training in the heat (step up here D) be effective as training at altitude.  Here's the basis for this question:

(Note to Lily - here's another old fart reminiscing)  My early running "career" was in Tampa, Fl.  I regularly ran 5 to 8 miles at lunch time most days of the week - temps in the summer would have been in the 90's with direct sun.  I am in the process of loading all my old log books into RA and ran across an entry for the Gold Coast Marathon in 1982.  I ran a 1:20 and change but the important part (at least for this discussion) is that my finish place was 18 of 705 and my notes included comments about beating several runners I knew for the first time.  So, my hypothesis is that, at least at that time, my training had positioned me to run better in the heat than others whose training was set to run early in the day.

That's interesting, Moth. You've had a great and long career, and more is to come, no doubt.

 

Re-reading LTH, mine and MothAudio's posts make me wonder whether it's a coincidence that the people who love to talk the most about their "running accomplishments" are amongst the eldest around here. I think we're trying to compensate for something (I mean old age ).

Who? Me?

Late to the party, but that's never stopped me from chiming in before.

Couple of random thoughts and questions.

1.  Daniels projects a difference of 3 to 4 seconds per mile for each 5 degrees above 60 for a 3:30 marathoner.  So some of the earlier 5 second recommendations seem appropriate.

2.  Agree completely with the direct sun comments.  As I have said on more than one occasion regarding my epic fail in Quebec in 2012, it was 87 degrees in the shade, and there was no shade.

3.  Question - does heat affect some more than others (duh)?  And can training in the heat (step up here D) be effective as training at altitude.  Here's the basis for this question:

 

(Note to Lily - here's another old fart reminiscing)  My early running "career" was in Tampa, Fl.  I regularly ran 5 to 8 miles at lunch time most days of the week - temps in the summer would have been in the 90's with direct sun.  I am in the process of loading all my old log books into RA and ran across an entry for the Gold Coast Marathon in 1982.  I ran a 1:20 and change but the important part (at least for this discussion) is that my finish place was 18 of 705 and my notes included comments about beating several runners I knew for the first time.  So, my hypothesis is that, at least at that time, my training had positioned me to run better in the heat than others whose training was set to run early in the day.

I think it is effective when racing in cold weather (training in heat but race in cold weather). I have found it does jack shit for racing in hot and humid weather.

The point was that performance falls off less if you've been running in the heat and have acclimated than if you haven't, not that you can run as well in the heat if you are used to it.

Oops.  But like I said, it is very individual and I don't think it helps me, or at least not anymore.  And the asthma issues heat and humidity bring makes it almost impossible for me to train well in Summer anymore (see my latest workout as an example) and most of the time not worth the extra pain.  Too bad my Summers last 10 months.

 

Oops.  But like I said, it is very individual and I don't think it helps me, or at least not anymore.  And the asthma issues heat and humidity bring makes it almost impossible for me to train well in Summer anymore (see my latest workout as an example) and most of the time not worth the extra pain.  Too bad my Summers last 10 months.

Yes, it must be very individual. I am not as affected by the heat as you are. But like most, it sure slows me down a lot. But in Nassau, Bermuda and Jamaica, where I ran in very warm conditions, I managed to win AG awards, which to me indicates that heat must have affected me a bit less than it affected others that day. Still, I had very bad fades in the last 6 miles and even walked a lot in Negril. I thought I was going to pass out.

One thing that no one has mentioned  (at least I don't think so) is how body size affects thermoregulation (your ability to keep yourself from overheating when running hard in heat).  I read an article within the past couple years on how, because of surface area to body mass ratio, larger runners have a much harder time with thermoregulation than smaller runners.  I am having trouble digging up the article, but it would explain why someone like me (5'11", avg-ish build) has a much harder time with heat, and why someone like you, Julie, would do relatively well in heat (winning AG awards in Nassau, Bermuda, and Jamaica).

 

Of course there are a ton of factors (conditions you train in being a major one) but that is one to consider.

Yes, Meaghan, I read that as well. That could be why many elites are short men and women (not all, but a surprising number).

 

Yes, it must be very individual. I am not as affected by the heat as you are. But like most, it sure slows me down a lot. But in Nassau, Bermuda and Jamaica, where I ran in very warm conditions, I managed to win AG awards, which to me indicates that heat must have affected me a bit less than it affected others that day. Still, I had very bad fades in the last 6 miles and even walked a lot in Negril. I thought I was going to pass out.

I'll bet you Negril was more humid than the others.  That would explain your feelings and slower performance. Humidity (dewpoint, actually) affects us more than heat (once you're acclimated to heat) because the body does not cool off itself better even after acclimating.