What about the Hokas? I am looking at some on Running Warehouse and it says they are neutral. The sole is almost two inches thick so it that just for more cushioning? That is not for support?
I do not wear them so I cannot answer that. I can say that I have less issues the lower the heel height of the shoe I wear. I only pulled out my big ass land-yachts this fall (Asics Kayanos) which have a 30 mm heel height because of the cushioning they provide comparatively speaking as my feet and legs were trashed from MRT.
Otherwise, everything else I wear has a 27 mm heel height or much less, which does not sound like much but over time and mileage is huge.
Yep.
I had a pair of Bondi's and now have a pair of Clifton's. Don't confuse cushion with support. These are definitely neutral shoes. "Support" shoes usually have things like a medial post in the sole or dual density midsoles.
uʍop ǝpᴉsdn sǝʇᴉɹʍ ʇI
It's all done. After reading all of your comments, I did not go to the LRS. I did some shopping on RW and got a pair of Mizuno Wave Hitogamis. My only concern is the size but their return policy is so easy the only problem is the waiting. On clearance for $69. I could care less if they are the old or new model. Thanks again for the help.
For *me*, Hoka stinson trail were unstable because of the marshmallow response inside the shoe. I still wonder if I should have had a smaller size, but couldn't get my foot in smaller size - not sure if something was labelled wrong. Yes, the thickness is for cushioning, but it's like a bucket seat, so you're lower than what it appears.
Altra Olympus worked better for me, but not liking them either.
With my biomechanics and foot/ankle strength / weaknesses for AT/PF, my PT found my mc with orthotics was too overcontrolling, put me in stabilities (still with orthotics) and gave me a bunch of strengthening workouts (one-leg stuff in multiple directions). I still needed some support in the forefoot for late stage pronation, which regular supports don't help.
I tend to be a forefoot striker so like protection there. I call it shock absorption - just make me not feel the pointy rocks (rock plate is only part of it). But squishy is not good and neither is too stiff.
What I look for is a forefoot that doesn't overly twist diagonally, but is flexible back and front. My Saucony Xodus 3 - neutral - works well for me under most conditions - good shock absorption but my foot doesn't move inside the shoe like they do with the Hokas and Olympus. The Adrenaline ASR is stability but not much up front, so it's not providing the little bit of torsional control (think stiff sole, rather than control posts) that I need up front, not to mention not enough shock absorption.
Again, that's my biomechanics and showing how shoe categories can be misleading if taken out of context.
delicate flower
It's all done. After reading all of your comments, I did not go to the LRS. I did some shopping on RW and got a pair of Mizuno Wave Hitogamis.
Me and B-Plus own pairs. You are in good company.
<3
Former Bad Ass
I use the Cliftons, the ones I recommended in my prior post. They are all neutral. They have cushion but are not support shoes.
Damaris
Yep. I had a pair of Bondi's and now have a pair of Clifton's. Don't confuse cushion with support. These are definitely neutral shoes. "Support" shoes usually have things like a medial post in the sole or dual density midsoles.
What are your thoughts on the Cliftons? I have done all my MP runs in them. They can fly, as the insole advertises.
I like the Hitogamis and you are fast enough that they could be a great marathon shoe for you. I am too slow and find that Hitogamis leave my feet too sore for anything longer than a HM.
I really like mine. 7.5 ounces with a lot of cushion. I used them on almost every one of my long runs and they felt great. I didn't do MP work in them but I did do a lot of fast miles and they worked much better than I thought they would. I think they are a little "soft" for racing for my taste but I have pleasantly surprised at how they feel for me.
By the way, the 2nd place overall masters runner, Michael Wardian, is sponsored by Hoka and ran Twin Cities in his Cliftons.
Next question: Someone told me "everyone" should wear inserts like Superfeet because the inserts that come with most shoes do not provide enough arch support. Again, is that up to the individual? Or should you only wear inserts if a doctor recommends them?
I've generally never worn inserts - at least in recent years after my PT got me straightened out 10 yr ago. I was trying to find something a little more shock absorption this fall, and didn't work out. I think I tried superfeet - berry (orange is men's equivalent, I think). I'm thinking of trying some simple neoprene in addition to what came with shoes - or getting rid of that stupid plastic in the heel which just made things too stiff. My shoes work fine for me, and I've got very high arches.
Not a big deal at the moment, since the race I wanted them for was so muddy, nothing hurt - not even the rough pavement.
I really like mine. 7.5 ounces with a lot of cushion. I used them on almost every one of my long runs and they felt great. I didn't do MP work in them but I did do a lot of fast miles and they worked much better than I thought they would. I think they are a little "soft" for racing for my taste but I have pleasantly surprised at how they feel for me. By the way, the 2nd place overall masters runner, Michael Wardian, is sponsored by Hoka and ran Twin Cities in his Cliftons.
I know! And he loves his Hokas!
I'll report back on how they felt during Chicago!
I have never worn any inserts whatsoever in my 15 years of running. I have never been injured.
I love that shoe!! But it's my race/tempo shoe, not for everyday use. I'm not saying they couldn't be though, that's just not how I use them.
I've never worn an insert other than what came with the shoe either. I know a few people who use them but far from "everyone". I'm in the if it ain't broke don't fix it camp and unless I started having foot issues and a doctor tells me to try inserts I'm sticking with where I'm at.