Low HR Training

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Monthly progress (Read 701 times)

    I've been tracking my mileage, time and HR since I started my adventure down the MAF Superhighway. In the Excel log that I keep (Thanks Tim twenty_six_two) I can view a graph of monthly paces for any given workout type. I have a type called "MAF" for when I, you guessed it, am running at MAF. Here are the monthly pace averages since I started my journey.

     

    06/09 = 13:04 pace

    07/09 = 12:43 pace

    08/09 = 12:16 pace

    09/09 = 11:59 pace

    10/09 = 11:46 pace

    11/09 = 11:14 pace

    12/09 = 11:33 pace

    01/10 = 11:22 pace

    02/10 = 10:54 pace

    03/10 = 10:48 pace

    04/10 = 10:22 pace

     

    I did have a slight regression in Dec and Jan, but I think that my have something to do with the extremely cold weather. In Dec, I ran all but two workouts outside in the cold.

     

    Just thought I'd share my results to show that this stuff works.

     

    The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

     

    2014 Goals:

     

    Stay healthy

    Enjoy life

     


    Consistently Slow

      I've been tracking my mileage, time and HR since I started my adventure down the MAF Superhighway. In the Excel log that I keep (Thanks Tim twenty_six_two) I can view a graph of monthly paces for any given workout type. I have a type called "MAF" for when I, you guessed it, am running at MAF. Here are the monthly pace averages since I started my journey.

       

      06/09 = 13:04 pace

      07/09 = 12:43 pace

      08/09 = 12:16 pace

      09/09 = 11:59 pace

      10/09 = 11:46 pace

      11/09 = 11:14 pace

      12/09 = 11:33 pace

      01/10 = 11:22 pace

      02/10 = 10:54 pace

      03/10 = 10:48 pace

      04/10 = 10:22 pace

       

      I did have a slight regression in Dec and Jan, but I think that my have something to do with the extremely cold weather. In Dec, I ran all but two workouts outside in the cold.

       

      Just thought I'd share my results to show that this stuff works.

       WOW!

      Run until the trail runs out.

      2013***1500 miles

      50 miler

      Race Less Train More

       

      Ana Trason  "Living Her Life"

      "The Marble in The Groove"

       

      unsolicited chatter

      http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

        neat. is that the average of MAF-only runs? or did you include zone 2 etc.?

         

        I see you have some non-MAF runs right now, did you ever have a pure MAF phase, if yes, when and how long?

         

        sorry for the questions but I didn't visit this forum in the past, thanks for any details. Smile

         

        by the way it is very useful to have these details. assuming this is MAF-only paces, it shows that if one starts with a slow pace they will probably need to wait for a noticeable speeding up. just like me. I'm in the 13's and high 12's. exactly like your first 2 months. makes me feel better to see that!

         

        PS: and yes cold weather around 15F or below will affect performance heavily. snowy terrain will also affect it a lot.

        jimmyb


           

          06/09 = 13:04 pace

          07/09 = 12:43 pace

          08/09 = 12:16 pace

          09/09 = 11:59 pace

          10/09 = 11:46 pace

          11/09 = 11:14 pace

          12/09 = 11:33 pace

          01/10 = 11:22 pace

          02/10 = 10:54 pace

          03/10 = 10:48 pace

          04/10 = 10:22 pace

           

           

          Awesome progress, BT. Almost a full three minutes at MAF in less than a year.

          Thanks for posting this. Very inspiring. Keep doing what you're doing!

          --Jimmy

          Log    PRs


          Beginner all over again

            I've been tracking my mileage, time and HR since I started my adventure down the MAF Superhighway. In the Excel log .........

             

            06/09 = 13:04 pace

            ................

            04/10 = 10:22 pace

             

            Very impressive

            I'm hoping for similar results one day !

             

            Keep up the good efforts!

             

              Reading this just made my day!  Congrats!
              Runner and writer with a pesky day job. http://memoirsandhalftruths.wordpress.com/ "Don't ask yourself what the world needs - ask yourself what makes you come alive, and then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive." -- H. T.Whitman

                neat. is that the average of MAF-only runs? or did you include zone 2 etc.?

                 

                I see you have some non-MAF runs right now, did you ever have a pure MAF phase, if yes, when and how long?

                 

                sorry for the questions but I didn't visit this forum in the past, thanks for any details. Smile

                 

                by the way it is very useful to have these details. assuming this is MAF-only paces, it shows that if one starts with a slow pace they will probably need to wait for a noticeable speeding up. just like me. I'm in the W's and high W's. exactly like your first 2 months. makes me feel better to see that!

                 

                PS: and yes cold weather around F or below will affect performance heavily. snowy terrain will also affect it a lot.

                 

                1. The listed month and paces are MAF only runs.

                 

                2. I have been running some non-MAF runs here and there for a few months. Mostly because there are times when I feel like my HR monitor is not reading correctly. When I say that I have a couple reasons for that statement. (A) There are plenty times when I start out and my HR jumps up to 150-160 within a minute of running and if I stop, it drops immediately to about 100-110 or so.

                (B) I sometimes use Jimmy's Barefinger II design to check against the HR monitor and yup, its acting goofy.

                (C) It just feels like it is reading high by a few beats because I don't feel like I'm running, breathing or exerting myself that much. So I end up calling it a Zone 2 run if it averages above my MAF and the upper limits of my Zone 2 calculated HR. I also have been doing a few Tempo and Race Pace runs lately in prep for my HM I ran on April 17th because I had no clue what I might be able to run for that race.

                 

                I'll be running pretty much MAF again for about six weeks before I start to seriously train for my first marathon on October 23rd. I found a sixteen week training program I liked and will try to follow it. I'd like to go sub 4 hours in that one.

                 

                I'll add that my MAF was 140 and for the first six months or so, I would watch my HR very closely so as to never go over it. More recently I've been using about 143 as a MAF HR, but usually try to stay at of below 140. I figure that if I were to start MAF train now instead of ten months ago, I would add 5 beats to the 180-age formula for exercising without injury and still progressing for over a year. If my HR averages over a 143, I'll typically call it a Zone 2 run unless it felt like a very easy and comfortable run. i try to keep around the original MAF HR of 140 so the pace data doesn't get to skewed by higher HR average runs. 

                 

                I've also dropped over 50 pounds since I started to train LHR and attribute some of that pace increase to the weight loss, and the other part to building up my aerobic system thanks to Dr. Phil and his "Maffetone Method".

                 

                The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

                 

                2014 Goals:

                 

                Stay healthy

                Enjoy life

                 

                  thanks for your very detailed reply! 

                   

                  what is barefinger II design? Big grin

                   

                  duh, the only one trick you did that sounds discouraging for me is you dropping 50lbs... if I did that I'd end up at 60lbs (110 minus 50 is 60, right)! so I can't use that trick for my advantage!

                   

                  still, nice progress, drooling! Wink

                  jimmyb


                     

                    what is barefinger II design? Big grin

                     

                     

                    You can order one, if you click on my profile (below) and scroll down. I don't take Diner's Club Card.

                    Log    PRs

                       Wow indeed, that is truely awesome progress!

                      I am just restarting my training after a layoff - partially planned and partially forced,

                      and plan to stay under MAF entirely for some time, here's hoping for similar progress!

                      I've been tracking my mileage, time and HR since I started my adventure down the MAF Superhighway. In the Excel log that I keep (Thanks Tim twenty_six_two) I can view a graph of monthly paces for any given workout type. I have a type called "MAF" for when I, you guessed it, am running at MAF. Here are the monthly pace averages since I started my journey.

                       

                      06/09 = 13:04 pace

                      07/09 = 12:43 pace

                      08/09 = 12:16 pace

                      09/09 = 11:59 pace

                      10/09 = 11:46 pace

                      11/09 = 11:14 pace

                      12/09 = 11:33 pace

                      01/10 = 11:22 pace

                      02/10 = 10:54 pace

                      03/10 = 10:48 pace

                      04/10 = 10:22 pace

                       

                      I did have a slight regression in Dec and Jan, but I think that my have something to do with the extremely cold weather. In Dec, I ran all but two workouts outside in the cold.

                       

                      Just thought I'd share my results to show that this stuff works.

                      gregw


                        Nicely done!  I'll bet this has something to do with it.  Keep it up!

                          Just thought I'd share my results to show that this stuff works.

                           

                          Congratulations on the weight loss.  That is not easy thing to do.  Your weight loss graph shows that you lost the weight gradually and consistantly over that time.

                           

                          I once read that you can expect for each pound lost, about a 2 second per mile improvement in pace for a 5k race.  You lost 45 pounds.  That translates to a minute and a half improvement per mile for a 5k race.  Your MAF pace should reflect that even more.

                           

                          I think most of your MAF improvement is due to the weight loss, but I am not trying to diminish it.  It is awesome that you lost that weight and your MAF pace improvement shows it .  You must feel like a new person out there running.

                           

                          Last year I lost about 10 pounds and that weight loss still remains the biggest portion of my improvement over the last three years.  I have been able to improve my 5k time by about 30 seconds per mile.  Half of that improvement is due to the weight loss.  Over the past three years, my MAF pace has improved by about a minute.

                            I got to thinking more about how much the weight loss is attributing to the increase in my MAF  monthly pace average. I started to delve into the log for a closer look at things  to do some analyzing of the data. My overall weight loss from my all time heaviest weight to today is 68 pounds. At my heaviest I was 264 pounds somewhere around  the middle of January of 2008. I had taken part in my Community Educations "Biggest Loser" contest and lost about 30 pounds, put it back on, lost it again, blah blah blah.

                             

                            When I started running outdoors is when I consider myself as a runner. That isn't meant to take anything away from people that run indoors on a treadmill, that just means I felt like when I was running on the treadmill for a workout, I wasn't really giving it much more then burning up minutes. I ran for about a month or so outside during my lunch break at work and had the mentality that the faster I could run a set distance, the better the workout was and the better a runner I was becoming. Well it did take long to figure out that I was beating myself up and I could not sustain what I was doing, so I looked for training alternatives. What I found was LHR training and specifically MAF. I weighed in at 229 pounds for my first ever MAF HR run on July 7th 2009.

                             

                            Below is a list of monthly ave paces along with ave. weights. I'm also including the expected 5k pace increase due to the weight loss.

                             

                            Date..............Weight..............Pace................Pace increase/decrease.................Pace change from weight

                             

                            07/09............225.5................12:43

                            08/09............220.6................12:16..............27 seconds/mi................10 to 12 sec decrease

                            09/09............217.6................11:59..............17 seconds/mi.................6 to 8 sec decrease

                            10/10............209.2................11:46..............13 seconds/mi.................17 to 21 sec decrease

                            11/09............204.3................11:14...............32 seconds/mi................10 to 12 sec decrease

                            12/09............206.5................11:33...............-19 seconds/mi................4 to 6 sec increase

                            01/10............203.5................11:22...............11 seconds/mi.................6 to 8 sec decrease

                            02/10............200.1................10:54...............28 second/min.................5 to 6 sec decrease

                            03/10............200.3................10:48...............6 second/ mi....................No change

                            04/10............199.6................10:22...............26 second/mi...................1 to 2 sec decrease

                             

                            Overall.............................................................141 seconds/mi...............52 to 65 sec decrease

                             

                            The range I used for the pace change due to weight loss was from 2 to 2.5 seconds per pound. I have read numerous times that is what you can expect to gain in pace with each pound of EXTRA fat that is lost. There does come a point where the pace increase stops from losing muscle instead of the fat.

                             

                            The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

                             

                            2014 Goals:

                             

                            Stay healthy

                            Enjoy life

                             

                              I got to thinking more about how much the weight loss is attributing to the increase in my MAF  monthly pace average. 

                               

                              I cut and pasted the table from Jesse's FAQ

                               

                              MAF 5K 5K HM marathon
                              min/mile race pace time time time
                              10:00 7:30 23:18 1:48 3:47
                              9:00 7:00 21:45 1:41 3:32
                              8:30 6:45 20:58 1:37 3:24
                              8:00 6:30 20:12 1:33 3:17
                              7:30 6:00 18:38 1:26 3:02
                              7:00 5:30 17:05 1:19 2:47
                              6:30 5:15 16:19 1:16 2:39
                              6:00 5:00 15:32 1:12 2:31
                              5:45 4:45 14:45 1:08 2:24
                              5:30 4:30 13:59 1:05 2:16
                              5:15 4:20 13:28 1:02 2:11
                              5:00 4:15 13:12 1:01 2:09

                               

                              The table sort of shows the relationship of MAF pace vs 5K pace.  Around the 10 min maf pace, it looks like you need a 1 minute MAF pace improvement for every 30 seconds of 5k improvement.  So, if a pound lost is about 2 seconds off of your 5k pace, then based on the table, a pound lost should result in twice that much for the MAF pace, which would be 4 seconds per mile.

                               

                              Anyway.  I have observed a 30 second improvement in my 5k race pace which corresponded to about a minute of MAF pace improvement for myself, so the numbers line up for me.

                               

                              So, if you are running a 10 minute or higher MAF pace, I would bet you would see more like 4 seconds of improvement for each pound due to weight loss, based on the logic above.  When you get to the lower 5k paces though, it appears to be more 1 to 1 the ratio.

                               

                              Anyway, it is interesting, and I love analyzing the numbers, and seeing them line up for myself.  But, in the end, it is great to see you MAF pace improve, reguardless of the reason. 

                              jimmyb


                                BT,  Losing the fat is part of it, and it is increasing fitness. You're Vo2max has been increasing with each pound lost. Progress is progress, even if losing weight was part of it the equation. It's truly amazing what you have done, and I am inspired by you. You are currently running 10:20ish pace at MAF, and you weigh 196 at 5'8". I'm beginning to think you have some talent there! By the time you get to your Goal weight, you might be looking at 8:30-9:00, or better. Which means 3:20-3:30 comes into the marathon picture, and breaking 4:00 will be a breeze.

                                 

                                 

                                Keep going, and please keep posting. Thanks for all this. 

                                 

                                --jimmy

                                 

                                Log    PRs

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