Low HR Training

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Carbo intolerance two week test (Read 904 times)

Shondek


    I'm sure it has been covered before but I thought I would give my thoughts on it and if anyone has advice on how they continued  after the test as I am only on day 12.

    My weight at the start was 11 stone 7lbs (158lbs)..with body  fat percent 14% .I am 6'1.5'' ie tall and skinny.

    After the first day I was surprised how much I didnt miss rice bread or pasta etc and so this quickly proved that sugar is the issue when it comes to cravings and desires.Although coffee and wine were allowed (my 2 favorite tipples) I have cut down to 1/4 cup of coffee ie a couple of sips and I'm done and by the time i've had my second glass of wine I'm thinking I've had enough(FOR ME THIS IS A MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH!!!!!) 

    Although I am what most people would call tall and skinny I could never understand how with running up to 100 miles a week I could still have a pot belly..etc The answer is carbs.My stomach is flat..I now look like a runner and a pretty good one,people who see me say thet guy must be doing his warm down,instead of look how slow that old guy is going

    It was on day 10 that I started to find a difference in my running, it was that light -footedness  that makes you feel like racing or doing speedwork.

    It's almost as if it's taking the LHR training to another level.

    All and all very impressed so far and if there's anyone out there who hasnt tried it I can highly recommend it.

    My weight is now 10 stone 10lbs(150) and body fat 10%.now I'm starting to get scared as I never considered myself overweight 11 stone was my racing weight.I'll try and keep fat at 10%..my wife is on day 7 and she has lost 4lbs.My face has always looked kind of gaunt but it now looks as if I've put some weight on!!

    Roll on winter

    jimmyb


    port-a-bella-potty

      Congrats on the success with the two-week test!

      Looking good! Cool

      --Jimmy

      Log    PRs

      zonykel


        My view is different on the subject. You lose weight because the total number of calories you consumed is less than you burned. Whether the calories came from carbohydrates, fat, or to a lesser extent protein, seems to be irrelevant. When you cut out carbohydrates and eat fat and protein only, the protein food (probably meat) leaves your stomach more satisfied and therefore you consume less total food and therefore less total calories. I think this is the basis of the Atkins diet. IMO, it's a very extreme diet, and probably not good for endurance runners for the long term. But I realize this was for a 2-week period, so it's probably not bad.
          My view is different on the subject. You lose weight because the total number of calories you consumed is less than you burned. Whether the calories came from carbohydrates, fat, or to a lesser extent protein, seems to be irrelevant. When you cut out carbohydrates and eat fat and protein only, the protein food (probably meat) leaves your stomach more satisfied and therefore you consume less total food and therefore less total calories. I think this is the basis of the Atkins diet. IMO, it's a very extreme diet, and probably not good for endurance runners for the long term. But I realize this was for a 2-weekmarathon period, so it's probably not bad.

           

          Also a significant percentage of that weight loss was most likrly water weight as the lack of carbohydrates means less water retention.

           

          I will add that I eat somewhat low carb and try to limit sugars and highly processed foods such as white bread. I also find that I seem to feel less sluggish and have a good amount of energy as long as I'm not training above my aerobic threshold.

           

          The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

           

          2014 Goals:

           

          Stay healthy

          Enjoy life

           

          Shondek


            My view is different on the subject. You lose weight because the total number of calories you consumed is less than you burned. Whether the calories came from carbohydrates, fat, or to a lesser extent protein, seems to be irrelevant. When you cut out carbohydrates and eat fat and protein only, the protein food (probably meat) leaves your stomach more satisfied and therefore you consume less total food and therefore less total calories. I think this is the basis of the Atkins diet. IMO, it's a very extreme diet, and probably not good for endurance runners for the long term. But I realize this was for a 2-week period, so it's probably not bad.

             Hi Zonykel  thanks for that explanation, it  is exactly what my wife said nodding her head  in agreement  when I read out your editorial .

            Firstly I don't eat anything that can look me in the eye so that takes care of flesh.I am eating more than I usually eat as I am so used to padding myself out with pasta rice etc..tho' I must admit I dont know the amount of calories consumed on both fronts to compare.

            I find it very concerning that someone of your intelligence thinks that cutting out sugar from ones diet is an extreme measure which probably explain why most folk in the developed world have to run about like head cases trying to keep slim ,healthy and fit.

            Zonykel!! could you please convey to us all what is it I am leaving out that is so good for me?

            You'll need to stop shopping in supermarkets, have you ever thought about eating something  that's not packaged,.My wife reluctantly joined me: I cook the meals so had no choice.(the kids were not having it)she has lost 4lbs in 4 days,,and lets just say our relationship has gone up a notch or two !!??That's good enough for me.

            Its only water !!??,,thank god its water It's a lot easier running around without water slushing around inside me.

            It was the water I was trying to get rid of !!!!Shifting the the fat is a bonus.

            I am not fat!When I started the test I was not fat.I am sitting here with a glass of grenache and a finishing off a bucket of peanuts,,,oh yeh really low calories...I'll weigh myself in the morning ...you could be right !!I'll let you know.When the 2 weeks is up I'll clarify everything for ya

             

            Rant over,,,that was nice

              I am going to start the two-week test on the Monday after Thanksgiving.  I am reading Maffetone's Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing and am buying into every word he writes.  It seems to make sense.  I have run for a year and lost no weight nor gained weight.  at 5'10", 183 lbs. I could stand to lose some weight.  I am not judging by whether I lose weight but it is obvious that unless I change what I eat I will not see any difference in  my training or fitness.

               

              I now realize my target heart rate should be 125 not 130.  I will adjust immediately.  I am puzzled by the 15 minute warm up and 15 minute cool down.  I am not sure how to warm up other than walking.  That will not get my heart rate up enough.  If I jog will it be considered a warm up.  I basically start off slow now and continue that way.  I am pressed to see how I should warm up much differently.

               

              Having read other books, its strikes me as odd that this book really seems to hit home.  I hope Maffetone knows what he is talking about.  I am wondering if anyone here has adopted his lifestyle recommendations completely.

              ___________

              Chris

              jimmyb


              port-a-bella-potty

                The two-week test is all about finding whether or not one is carbohydrate intolerant, and to see how the various sources of carbs affect your body (does a whopping bowl of Captain Crunch make you sleepy? Did that 1-pound bag of M+m's make you comatose? Do you get all bloated and gassy when eating a diet consisting of mainly white bread and pasta?).


                Weight-loss during the two-week test is not uncommon according to Dr. Phil.


                The key measurement in weight loss is the %body fat. Is your waist getting slimmer? In Shondek's case, he loss some bodyfat for sure. Perhaps there was some water loss, but that's always the case when cutting down on salty, quickcarby crap.


                As far as the carb-protein-fat ratio, some people do really well on 40-30-30 type of spreads. Others do really well on 70-15-15. There's no one perfect diet for all runners. I do well with a 55% carb (give or take 5%), and not so well when I get below 50%. If I'm carbing out, as in a carbo-load, I feel like poo-poo. Whether I am carbo-loading for a marathon, or because I'm just being a compulsive oink-oink and can't resist the shiny packaging of all the Twinkies, Kit Kats, Klondike Bars, etc. and just unwrap them like a kid at Christmas and eat them like Pacman does his little white dots.


                --Jimmy




                Log    PRs

                jimmyb


                port-a-bella-potty

                  I am going to start the two-week test on the Monday after Thanksgiving.  I am reading Maffetone's Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing and am buying into every word he writes.  It seems to make sense.  I have run for a year and lost no weight nor gained weight.  at 5'10", 183 lbs. I could stand to lose some weight.  I am not judging by whether I lose weight but it is obvious that unless I change what I eat I will not see any difference in  my training or fitness.

                   

                  I now realize my target heart rate should be 125 not 130.  I will adjust immediately.  I am puzzled by the 15 minute warm up and 15 minute cool down.  I am not sure how to warm up other than walking.  That will not get my heart rate up enough.  If I jog will it be considered a warm up.  I basically start off slow now and continue that way.  I am pressed to see how should warm up much differently.

                   

                  Having read other books, its strikes me as odd that this book really seems to hit home.  I hope Maffetone knows what he is talking about.  I am wondering if anyone here has adopted his lifestyle recommendations completely.

                   

                  Warm-up is easy. Just break it up into segments, gradually bringing your HR up. For example, this is what I do on most runs:

                   

                  5:00 ...100-105 bpm (MAF-30 to MAF -25)

                  5:00...105-110 bpm (MAF-25 to MAF -20)

                  5:00 105-115bpm (MAF -20 to MAF -15)

                  5:00 115 to 130 (MAF-15 to MAF)

                   

                  Or if your MAF was 125, then you could do:

                   

                  5:00...100-108

                  5:00...108-116

                  5:00...116-125

                   

                  Whatever. Just bring it up gradually and under control for 15 minutes then get to it. Cool down, I just walk for 15-20 minutes. Works well for me.

                   

                  --Jimmy

                  Log    PRs

                  zonykel


                     Hi Zonykel  thanks for that explanation, it  is exactly what my wife said nodding her head  in agreement  when I read out your editorial .

                    Firstly I don't eat anything that can look me in the eye so that takes care of flesh.I am eating more than I usually eat as I am so used to padding myself out with pasta rice etc..tho' I must admit I dont know the amount of calories consumed on both fronts to compare.

                    I find it very concerning that someone of your intelligence thinks that cutting out sugar from ones diet is an extreme measure which probably explain why most folk in the developed world have to run about like head cases trying to keep slim ,healthy and fit.

                    Zonykel!! could you please convey to us all what is it I am leaving out that is so good for me?

                    You'll need to stop shopping in supermarkets, have you ever thought about eating something  that's not packaged,.My wife reluctantly joined me: I cook the meals so had no choice.(the kids were not having it)she has lost 4lbs in 4 days,,and lets just say our relationship has gone up a notch or two !!??That's good enough for me.

                    Its only water !!??,,thank god its water It's a lot easier running around without water slushing around inside me.

                    It was the water I was trying to get rid of !!!!Shifting the the fat is a bonus.

                    I am not fat!When I started the test I was not fat.I am sitting here with a glass of grenache and a finishing off a bucket of peanuts,,,oh yeh really low calories...I'll weigh myself in the morning ...you could be right !!I'll let you know.When the 2 weeks is up I'll clarify everything for ya

                     

                    Rant over,,,that was nice

                     

                    For the sake of honesty, I'll tell you that my diet is nothing to write home about. It's the one thing I need to improve significantly.

                     

                    When I mentioned carbohydrates, I wasn't equating them to sugar, although sugar sure is a cabohydrate. Feel free to cut out man-made sugary foods. However, I wouldn't cut out fruits just because they contain sugar. They're natural and contain lots of other nutrients besides carbohydrates that are good for you.

                     

                    I'm currently reading "Racing Weight" by Matt Fitzgerald, and he has significantly different views from Dr. Maffetone. Fitzgerald does mention that there is not "magic ratio" with regards to what percentage of carbs, fats, and protein you should consume. Having said that, I would be very concerned about attempting to zero out or nearly zeroing out any nutrient, whether it's carbs, fats, or protein. Back to the book, I think it's a good read and worth comparing and contrasting to Dr. Maffetone. I personally wouldn't follow blindly any guru just because they wrote a book :-) If something doesn't feel right or if there is significant contradictory evidence, then it's worth wearing the skeptic hat and do some research.

                     

                    As a comical side note, IIRC, there was a study released within the last year that basically concluded that total number of calories consumed compared to the total number of calories burned was the primary factor in determining weight loss. You could be eating twinkies all day for that matter, and as long as you consumed less calories than you burned, you'd lose weight. Now, the twinky diet would probably eventually kill you, as you'd be nutritionally deficient in many aspects.

                      The two-week test is all about finding whether or not one is carbohydrate intolerant, and to see how the various sources of carbs affect your body (does a whopping bowl of Captain Crunch make you sleepy? Did that 1-pound bag of M+m's make you comatose? Do you get all bloated and gassy when eating a diet consisting of mainly white bread and pasta?).

                       

                       

                      um, if you get sleepy from a whole pound of M+m's, you're not really necessarily carb intolerant, you've just ate an insane amount of sugar and whatever other crap is in that stuff, so the result is pretty much expected. :P

                       

                      ps.: I didn't try eating that much of the above stuff, I maybe eat it twice a year and even then only a few grams worth of it. so I'm guessing but I'm pretty sure I'm right here :P

                      Shondek


                        For the sake of honesty, I'll tell you that my diet is nothing to write home about. It's the one thing I need to improve significantly.

                         

                        When I mentioned carbohydrates, I wasn't equating them to sugar, although sugar sure is a cabohydrate. Feel free to cut out man-made sugary foods. However, I wouldn't cut out fruits just because they contain sugar. They're natural and contain lots of other nutrients besides carbohydrates that are good for you.

                         

                        I'm currently reading "Racing Weight" by Matt Fitzgerald, and he has significantly different views from Dr. Maffetone. Fitzgerald does mention that there is not "magic ratio" with regards to what percentage of carbs, fats, and protein you should consume. Having said that, I would be very concerned about attempting to zero out or nearly zeroing out any nutrient, whether it's carbs, fats, or protein. Back to the book, I think it's a good read and worth comparing and contrasting to Dr. Maffetone. I personally wouldn't follow blindly any guru just because they wrote a book :-) If something doesn't feel right or if there is significant contradictory evidence, then it's worth wearing the skeptic hat and do some research.

                         

                        As a comical side note, IIRC, there was a study released within the last year that basically concluded that total number of calories consumed compared to the total number of calories burned was the primary factor in determining weight loss. You could be eating twinkies all day for that matter, and as long as you consumed less calories than you burned, you'd lose weight. Now, the twinky diet would probably eventually kill you, as you'd be nutritionally deficient in many aspects.

                         I hear you Zonykel,though initially I thought you were being ironic.

                        I'm not sure you understand.This is a 2 week test not a diet some people wont loose weight of feel better.I do understand that a fast change in diet can shock the system into loosing weight as it happened to me 30 years ago when I decided to stop eating flesh.When my mother said to me I was looking well having lost 6lbs and she been saying to me for years I'm too skinny,said it all for me.

                        After the test is finished I slowly start adding  the best carbs ie low gi fruit then pulses and then brown rice.I never eat much fruit anyway.

                         

                        You'll be happy know I haven't lost an weight today but my body fat has gone down another % to 9%..

                         

                        I'm starting to feel guilty now this must be bad for you.I'll check out that book you were taking about sounds interesting.I Still say Maff's the man.

                        You and my wife would really get on..come to think of it you and I would really get on...my guru is better than your guruSmile

                         

                        Try the test and prove me wrong ! much prefer to hear 'Tried it!! It doesn't work ,help or do any good ' than..'haven't tried or experienced anything you are talking about but I know what I'm talking about and  it doesn't work ,help or do any good'

                        Shondek


                          Congrats on the success with the two-week test!

                          Looking good! Cool

                          --Jimmy

                           Thanks for the encouragement Jimmy, your advice has been highly appreciated .

                             I hear you Zonykel,though initially I thought you were being ironic.

                            I'm not sure you understand.This is a 2 week test not a diet some people wont loose weight of feel better.I do understand that a fast change in diet can shock the system into loosing weight as it happened to me 30 years ago when I decided to stop eating flesh.When my mother said to me I was looking well having lost 6lbs and she been saying to me for years I'm too skinny,said it all for me.

                            After the test is finished I slowly start adding  the best carbs ie low gi fruit then pulses and then brown rice.I never eat much fruit anyway.

                             

                            You'll be happy know I haven't lost an weight today but my body fat has gone down another % to 9%..

                             

                            I'm starting to feel guilty now this must be bad for you.I'll check out that book you were taking about sounds interesting.I Still say Maff's the man.

                            You and my wife would really get on..come to think of it you and I would really get on...my guru is better than your guruSmile

                             

                            Try the test and prove me wrong ! much prefer to hear 'Tried it!! It doesn't work ,help or do any good ' than..'haven't tried or experienced anything you are talking about but I know what I'm talking about and  it doesn't work ,help or do any good'

                             

                            This is from Livestrong,com on water retention and carbohydrates:

                             

                            Unfortunately, there is a relationship between a high-carb diet and water retention. In "Good Calories, Bad Calories," author Gary Taubes writes that carbohydrates cause your kidneys to hoard salt instead of excrete it. Once your body's salt content rises, your water content must also rise to keep the ratio of salt to bodily fluid steady. When you cut carbs, your body can let go of both the salt and the water it was retaining. This is why low-carb diets often produce a quick initial weight loss --- the dieter isn't losing any body fat, but he is losing several pounds of retained salt and water.

                             

                            Your body stores energy as fat and glycogen. Whereas fat stores can vary dramatically from person to person, your body can only store so much energy as glycogen. Glycogen requires water to be stored. In the initial stages of diet/caloric restriction and exercise, your body depletes these glycogen stores, reducing your bodyweight from the elimination of both the weight of the stored glycogen and the weight of the water. Note that nowhere in this process is the much-desired loss of fat!

                             

                            Thus, even as it will feel good to shed 5 – 10 lbs. simply from a few days of exercise mixed with a caloric-restricted diet, the weight loss will be primarily from a reduction in glycogen stores and water. In other words, what you’ll have lost in the beginning is really little more than water weight.

                            I'm curious to know how you gdetermined the percentage of bodyfat? Are you using a scale that calculates your BF percentage? Electro measurements rely on conductivity and your weight to calculate your body fat. If you are well hydrated you will show as having a higher fat level than if you are de-hydrated.

                            Still think you lost 1% BF overnight without shedding a single pound?

                             

                            As I stated before, I personally choose to eat a low carbohydrate diet and feel much better overall when doing so. If its making you feel and run better, thats all that really matters, but don't be fooled by the intial weight loss as anything permanent unless you stick to the low carbohydrate levels you are currently at.

                             

                            The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

                             

                            2014 Goals:

                             

                            Stay healthy

                            Enjoy life

                             

                            Shondek


                              This is from Livestrong,com on water retention and carbohydrates:

                               

                              Unfortunately, there is a relationship between a high-carb diet and water retention. In "Good Calories, Bad Calories," author Gary Taubes writes that carbohydrates cause your kidneys to hoard salt instead of excrete it. Once your body's salt content rises, your water content must also rise to keep the ratio of salt to bodily fluid steady. When you cut carbs, your body can let go of both the salt and the water it was retaining. This is why low-carb diets often produce a quick initial weight loss --- the dieter isn't losing any body fat, but he is losing several pounds of retained salt and water.

                               

                              Your body stores energy as fat and glycogen. Whereas fat stores can vary dramatically from person to person, your body can only store so much energy as glycogen. Glycogen requires water to be stored. In the initial stages of diet/caloric restriction and exercise, your body depletes these glycogen stores, reducing your bodyweight from the elimination of both the weight of the stored glycogen and the weight of the water. Note that nowhere in this process is the much-desired loss of fat!

                               

                              Thus, even as it will feel good to shed 5 – 10 lbs. simply from a few days of exercise mixed with a caloric-restricted diet, the weight loss will be primarily from a reduction in glycogen stores and water. In other words, what you’ll have lost in the beginning is really little more than water weight.

                              I'm curious to know how you gdetermined the percentage of bodyfat? Are you using a scale that calculates your BF percentage? Electro measurements rely on conductivity and your weight to calculate your body fat. If you are well hydrated you will show as having a higher fat level than if you are de-hydrated.

                              Still think you lost 1% BF overnight without shedding a single pound?

                               

                              As I stated before, I personally choose to eat a low carbohydrate diet and feel much better overall when doing so. If its making you feel and run better, thats all that really matters, but don't be fooled by the intial weight loss as anything permanent unless you stick to the low carbohydrate levels you are currently at.

                               Thanks burnt toast that's clarified everything we already knew.

                              The reason for my post is to convey how my body reacts  to cutting out most sugars from my diet, I wasn't intending or desiring to loose weight.The reason I use scales is to check hydration before and after a run and at present my weight doesn't change after 2.5 hour runs.  

                              I have never cut out on carbs so i was amazed how much water I was storing .Remember water is heavier than fat so my so called ''much-desired loss of fat'' is actually ''much-desired loss of water''.Fat is light in comparison to bones,water  and muscle  so I think my scales might not be accurate enough to weight 1% BF.

                              The next part is where I add carbs and try and keep my tummy flat

                               

                              That's all I want, a beer gut free life

                               

                              As far as my tanita scales go I dont know of their accuracy the only other tool I have are the pinchers  which I will use at the end of test and compare it to scales ..Hey I thought this was a running forum why is everyone getting hung up on fat and water lose ..more like weight watchers.

                              If anyone is interested this is how the pinchers work

                              You take different pinch measurements this is mine when I was flying 1994 aged 34

                              ticeps...7mm

                              thigh.....7mm

                              subscapular...7mm

                              abdominal...17mm

                              pectoralis...4mm

                              midaxillary..5mm

                              sum of skinfolds=E=53mm

                              sum squared=2809=E(Sq)

                              First calculate body density...ref;Jackson and Pollock.......Jackson Pollock!!??

                               Body Density = 1.1093800 -( 0.00043499 x E) + (0.00000055 X E2) -( 0.00028826 X age)=BD

                               

                              =1.07838356

                              Body fat = (4.57/BD-4.142)x100=9.5%BF

                               

                              BurntToast! you did ask

                               

                              My weight at the time was probably 151(11 stone)

                               

                              I remember that year well I trained all winter the lydiard way for the first time, raced all summer and in my last race of the season won a local marathon comfortably(just under 6 mim/mile)  using my new 1st  heart rate monitor  @ 156-167ish looking back my maf then would have been 146.The fast guys were on holiday and it was very hot and hilly...well flat!!

                              I then went on to train at 166!!?Doomed from the start..If I hadnt bought that monitor,who knows

                              Shondek


                                that should be water loss

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