Low HR Training

"Race Report & Upcoming Races" Thread (Read 7716 times)

jimmyb


    Great to see everybody still at it.  I've been AWOL for a while.  I just wanted to share a benefit of slow running that might be glossed over:  it lets you clear your head!  My mileage dropped a lot over the last 6 months as the demands of work took their toll and I had trouble rationalizing the time.  I also wasn't enjoying running very much and probably didn't try as hard to "get it in" as I would.  I'd try to make it more efficient by doing more workouts as well.  Running less just stressed me more.  The low was when I bagged an out-of-state marathon I'd signed up for.  Eventually I was watching Google tech talks on youtube and saw a guy dressed as a Buddhist monk (Ricard Matthieu).  He was giving a talk about happiness and meditation.  It made me re-remember one of the key benefits of running, especially slow running, that I'd always been aware of -- it's essentially meditation.  When people would ask what I was thinking about on those long runs, I'd say "everything and nothing."

     

    As always happens when I get off track with running, I went back to MAF.  For the last 6 weeks, I've run *very* slowly on the same 7.8 mile route.  Heart rates ~130 (I'm 41) and paces in the 10:30-11:30 range.  I'd listen to my body, stopping to stretch if I felt a niggle.  I'd admire the leaves and watched them change color over the weeks.  I don't think I broke 9:45 on a single mile.  Last week I finally got a full 7 days of running and about 55 miles.  Yesterday I did a turkey trot and ran 20:34, so I think I'm finally back on track.  I have a ways to go before I can attempt a PR in anything, but I now think I'm not too old yet.

     

    As an aside, I tried treating the race itself as meditation, focusing on my breathing, paying attention to my body, but trying not to feed the negative thoughts that come during the hard parts of the race.  It was by far the easiest 5k I've ever run.  My HR was 189 (versus my usual 192) in the last mile, so maybe I didn't go all out, but it was pretty close and the race just flew by.  I also passed a guy at the end that I swear I normally would have let go because I'd rationalize that it wasn't worth the extra pain.

     

    What a great post!

    Nice race, Greg. Cool

     

    --Jimmy

    Log    PRs


    Consistently Slow

      Thomson trail marathon 6:45. Will not be going to Tallahassee. The last 4.6 miles took 90 minutes. it was not the knee. I am just not in shape. Lap 1- 65:00 minutes. Knee brace adjustments. 2- 57:00- 3-59--4-73-5-62-6-90 (4.6).

      Run until the trail runs out.

      2014***1500 miles 09/28/14

      50miler 13:26:18

      Race Less Train More

       Pistol 100 ----01/03/15

      Ana Trason  "Living Her Life"

      "The Marble in The Groove"

       

      unsolicited chatter

      http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

        Ran a 4 mile cross country race that our local running club puts on this morning.

         

        Ended up running a 32:03, not quite what I was hoping for, but still an improvement of over 5 minutes over the same race last year for me.  That's 1:15 per mile faster.  I got first in the fat boy division again.

         

        Was going for a goal time of 30:00 which would be a 7:30 pace for 4 miles.  1st mile was a little fast, 7:20, feeling pretty decent, 2nd mile was 7:33, still feeling good, 3rd mile blew up to a 8:07, not sure what happened, there was a net elevation gain of 55' on that mile, I was racing against a guy in my age group and passed him in that mile actually, I think everyone else was slowing down so I just wasn't pushing hard enough.  Mile 4 was a 7:52 and then came in the last little bit at a 7:12.  My GPS logged it as 4.17 miles and I think the course is a little long, but even according to my GPS my pace was a 7:42 which was off my target.  Per the listed course distance of 4 miles my time gets me a 8:01 pace.

         

        Course is somewhat tough, 388' of elevation gain over 4 miles would math out to over 1,200' of elevation gain on a Half Marathon so plenty of hills.  Always different running on grass and rocks and that adds a little time.  Weather was PERFECT though this morning.  46 degrees and 7 mph breeze.

         

        Not sure if I ran as hard as I could have.  While I was out there it felt like I was giving it my full effort, but my heart rate never really showed that.  My lactate threshold is somewhere around 175 and I ended the race with an average HR of only 172 and only got it to 183 at the very end of the race when my max HR is 194 based on some of my races earlier this summer.  What I'm thinking is that I'm getting to where my cardio is actually better than my muscles and my legs are the limiting factor.  No idea if that is true or not, but that's what it feels like.  It also might be telling me that I'm a whimp and I could have pushed myself harder than I did.  The crazy thing is the last race that this happened on was my PR 5K where I ran a 22:39, but my HR never spiked at the finish and only topped out at about 183.  I think it was because I was too tired to push it in any faster.  Oh well, I'm sure as I race more I'll get more of that figured out.  When I was out there running it felt like I was giving it my best effort anyway.

         

        Here's my splits with HR:  (183 = 94% of my max HR, 175 is 90% of my max HR)

         

        Splits (GPS Interval)
         TypeDistance Split settingsDurationTotal DurationPaceAvg HRMax HRNotes
        1 Manual 1 mi 7:18.68 7:18.68 7:19 166 177  
        2 Manual 1 mi 7:33.28 14:51.96 7:34 173 179  
        3 Manual 1 mi 8:07.37 22:59.33 8:08 176 183  
        4 Manual 1 mi 7:50.62 30:49.95 7:51 177 183  
        5 Manual 0.17 mi 1:13.05 32:03 7:10 180 183

         

        I made the map public in my log if anyone want to check it out.  Looking at the elevation chart it does look like it was a little hilly.

         

        Hope everyone has a great weekend!

         

        Nathan

        Age: 46 Weight: 200 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

        Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27

        jimmyb


          Nice race, Nathan. Congratulations on winning the husky division!

           

          On calling yourself a wimp: did you feel uncomfortable or comfortable during the race? A 4-miler should feel very hard and uncomfortable almost the entire race. Not oxygen-debt discomfort, but feeling like you're in your upper end of effort. There's grace and then there's comfort. There are races that are graceful, but still very, very uncomfortable. All distances eventually reach the stage of discomfort. 5k's, you get there pretty fast. Marathons take until about mile 22-23 (if you're in proper shape). I've had the experience of not being able to get HR up, and being uncomfortable, but I believe that was due to not being rested enough, not that my heart had somehow exceeded my legs ability to turnover.

           

          Ultimately, Nathan, you're just experiencing the winding curves and law of averages that permeate this long, wonderful journey of being an athlete without an endorsement contract.

           

          Keep going, man. You're doing awesome. Love your reports.

           

          ---Jimmy Cool

          Log    PRs

            I had an unexpected chance to run a 9.6 mile trail race this morning and decided to go for it despite conditions not exactly being optimal. I work the early morning shift at FedEx loading trucks and lately we have been finishing close to 8am (start at 2:30 am). So, I was not expecting to be able to make it to the race (8:30 start, and I knew parking would be a serious problem).

             

            But then I got off work around 7!!!! And so the somewhat rushed preparations begin. I hadn't eaten anything yet, but didn't really have the time have an actual meal. Ended up eating a lara bar. Drove up to the trail head... had to park a half mile away and had a STEEP walk up to the start.

             

            Then comes the moment of truth... can I actually register? I had heard the race was full. No problem. Even got a shirt! Back down to the car. Back UP to the start. That was my warm-up.

             

            At this point I really have no idea how things are going to go. I was likely a little dehydrated from work. I had just had two of my highest mileage weeks ever (before counting the race distance). I did however spend those two weeks mostly below maf, and completely below MAF+10. And I know the course. I have run it several times, though in the reverse direction and at a pretty easy pace.

             

            I lined up near the back and off we went.

             

                            time           pace  HR avg   HR max

                1 mi 12:47.07   12:48  150 173  really slow start, huge conga line on single track
                1 mi 11:46.67   11:47  174 178  finally break free, start uphill
                1 mi 13:39.97   13:40  180 186  uphill
                1 mi 13:14.09   13:15  178 182  uphill
                1 mi 9:37.44   9:38  174 180  finally going back down
                1 mi 9:19.15   9:20  177 183  down
                1 mi 10:32.55   10:33  181 189  mixed
                1 mi 9:59.88   10:00 178 187  down
                1 mi 13:27.55   13:28 184 187  uphill,
                0.29 mi 3:28.83   12:01 186 189  uphill

             

            Garmin was a little short, as usual on trails. Average pace 11:15. Avg HR 175. Time 1:47:43. 4th of 7 in age group. 90th of 136 total. The winner finished in 1:08!!

             

            Total elevation gain after resampling: ~1500. Loop course so the average grade as best I can figure was around 6%.

             

            High point: I was only passed once! And I passed a ton, particularly on the downhills.

            Low point: after about 7 miles I started getting those weird chills like I was overheating, but the temperature was only 53 deg, it was raining and I wasn't feeling hot at the same time. So not really sure what was going on there. I was also finding it alot harder to keep pushing. Legs were feeling a little weak. By the last mile I was walking the steeper uphill sections, but still managing to force myself into a run every time it got a little more level.

            After finishing I went straight for the food. Which is odd for me... if the handfull of 5k's I have raced over the last 3 years gives me any idea of what normal is for me. Usually I want something to drink and to walk around for a bit. Today, 3 bananas, 3 doughnuts (I dont even like doughnuts!) and about a liter of Gatorade, and a cup of hot chocolate! Oddly I didn't feel hungry exactly... I just really wanted food and that was what they had.

             

            Overall I had a great time at my third ever trail race. I am slowly getting more confident passing people on single track. I feel like I maintained a pretty even effort throughout, aside from when I got stuck behind multiple bodies. One person I can pass (though I tend to coast along behind them for too long, taking it easy)... when there is a tight group ahead of me I have more problems.

             

            I haven't done much racing so I really don't know how to find the right effort level. I basically went by my breathing. I know how I breath during a 5k... in in out, over 4 steps, fairly loud, and I figured I should stay just below that level of effort. That turned out to be somewhere around 180bpm, which is ~90% of my observed max of 197 (end of a 5k). I felt good, working hard but good, for most of the race but the last couple of miles were tough. So maybe that was about right.

             

            At the moment I'm feeling tired, but otherwise fine. I'll be taking it easy next week and plan on staying below MAF until mid-end January when I think I'll add some hill intervals and progression runs to get ready for the Cheaha 50k.

             

            I uploaded the garmin data to my log if anyone wants to see the awesome elevation profile.

            Mt Cheaha 50k 2/23/2013:  7:34 :D

            Lake Martin 50; 27 miles: 5:29:07

            Run For Kids 50k, Birmingham, 5/4/2013: 6:26:33 Woot!

            jimmyb


              I had an unexpected chance to run a 9.6 mile trail race this morning and decided to go for it despite conditions not exactly being optimal. I work the early morning shift at FedEx loading trucks and lately we have been finishing close to 8am (start at 2:30 am). So, I was not expecting to be able to make it to the race (8:30 start, and I knew parking would be a serious problem).

               

              But then I got off work around 7!!!! And so the somewhat rushed preparations begin. I hadn't eaten anything yet, but didn't really have the time have an actual meal. Ended up eating a lara bar. Drove up to the trail head... had to park a half mile away and had a STEEP walk up to the start.

               

              Then comes the moment of truth... can I actually register? I had heard the race was full. No problem. Even got a shirt! Back down to the car. Back UP to the start. That was my warm-up.

               

              At this point I really have no idea how things are going to go. I was likely a little dehydrated from work. I had just had two of my highest mileage weeks ever (before counting the race distance). I did however spend those two weeks mostly below maf, and completely below MAF+10. And I know the course. I have run it several times, though in the reverse direction and at a pretty easy pace.

               

              I lined up near the back and off we went.

               

                              time           pace  HR avg   HR max

                  1 mi 12:47.07   12:48  150 173  really slow start, huge conga line on single track
                  1 mi 11:46.67   11:47  174 178  finally break free, start uphill
                  1 mi 13:39.97   13:40  180 186  uphill
                  1 mi 13:14.09   13:15  178 182  uphill
                  1 mi 9:37.44   9:38  174 180  finally going back down
                  1 mi 9:19.15   9:20  177 183  down
                  1 mi 10:32.55   10:33  181 189  mixed
                  1 mi 9:59.88   10:00 178 187  down
                  1 mi 13:27.55   13:28 184 187  uphill,
                  0.29 mi 3:28.83   12:01 186 189  uphill

               

              Garmin was a little short, as usual on trails. Average pace 11:15. Avg HR 175. Time 1:47:43. 4th of 7 in age group. 90th of 136 total. The winner finished in 1:08!!

               

              Total elevation gain after resampling: ~1500. Loop course so the average grade as best I can figure was around 6%.

               

              High point: I was only passed once! And I passed a ton, particularly on the downhills.

              Low point: after about 7 miles I started getting those weird chills like I was overheating, but the temperature was only 53 deg, it was raining and I wasn't feeling hot at the same time. So not really sure what was going on there. I was also finding it alot harder to keep pushing. Legs were feeling a little weak. By the last mile I was walking the steeper uphill sections, but still managing to force myself into a run every time it got a little more level.

              After finishing I went straight for the food. Which is odd for me... if the handfull of 5k's I have raced over the last 3 years gives me any idea of what normal is for me. Usually I want something to drink and to walk around for a bit. Today, 3 bananas, 3 doughnuts (I dont even like doughnuts!) and about a liter of Gatorade, and a cup of hot chocolate! Oddly I didn't feel hungry exactly... I just really wanted food and that was what they had.

               

              Overall I had a great time at my third ever trail race. I am slowly getting more confident passing people on single track. I feel like I maintained a pretty even effort throughout, aside from when I got stuck behind multiple bodies. One person I can pass (though I tend to coast along behind them for too long, taking it easy)... when there is a tight group ahead of me I have more problems.

               

              I haven't done much racing so I really don't know how to find the right effort level. I basically went by my breathing. I know how I breath during a 5k... in in out, over 4 steps, fairly loud, and I figured I should stay just below that level of effort. That turned out to be somewhere around 180bpm, which is ~90% of my observed max of 197 (end of a 5k). I felt good, working hard but good, for most of the race but the last couple of miles were tough. So maybe that was about right.

               

              At the moment I'm feeling tired, but otherwise fine. I'll be taking it easy next week and plan on staying below MAF until mid-end January when I think I'll add some hill intervals and progression runs to get ready for the Cheaha 50k.

               

              I uploaded the garmin data to my log if anyone wants to see the awesome elevation profile.

               

              Excellent report, Lynde. Good run. That race sounds tough. Sounds to me like you're learning how to race trail races as you go, and well. Keep going!

               

              --JImmyCool

              Log    PRs


              Consistently Slow

                Lynde congrats. Passing on single track trails can be an adventure.

                Run until the trail runs out.

                2014***1500 miles 09/28/14

                50miler 13:26:18

                Race Less Train More

                 Pistol 100 ----01/03/15

                Ana Trason  "Living Her Life"

                "The Marble in The Groove"

                 

                unsolicited chatter

                http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

                  Thanks!

                  I think trying to pass on the single track was the hardest part of the race! Well, if you dont count running the last couple of miles. The key seems to be to just go for it... there is never going to be a good place to pass so there is not much point in sitting behind someone waiting for the perfect spot.  And everyone was super about moving over as best they could. There was a real friendly, encouraging vibe throughout the whole race.

                  Mt Cheaha 50k 2/23/2013:  7:34 :D

                  Lake Martin 50; 27 miles: 5:29:07

                  Run For Kids 50k, Birmingham, 5/4/2013: 6:26:33 Woot!


                  Consistently Slow

                    Disney marathon 5:09:43. Posting pictures is still a challenge. Best I could do.

                     

                    https://www.facebook.com/ron.clay.14/photos_stream

                    Run until the trail runs out.

                    2014***1500 miles 09/28/14

                    50miler 13:26:18

                    Race Less Train More

                     Pistol 100 ----01/03/15

                    Ana Trason  "Living Her Life"

                    "The Marble in The Groove"

                     

                    unsolicited chatter

                    http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

                    jimmyb


                      Disney marathon 5:09:43. Posting pictures is still a challenge. Best I could do.

                       

                      https://www.facebook.com/ron.clay.14/photos_stream

                       

                      WTG, Ron. Another one under your belt, Mr. Maniac. Nice pics. Peter Pan looks a bit jealous. Perhaps if he got rid of the tights he'd get a little more attention from Snow. How can he compete against those manly, rough knees of yours?

                       

                      Keep going!

                       

                      --JimmyCool

                      Log    PRs

                      gregw


                        Disney marathon 5:09:43. Posting pictures is still a challenge. Best I could do.

                         

                        https://www.facebook.com/ron.clay.14/photos_stream

                         

                        Well done, Ron!  I checked out you maniacs page.  37??  Holy cow!

                          Great to see everybody still at it.  I've been AWOL for a while.  I just wanted to share a benefit of slow running that might be glossed over:  it lets you clear your head!  My mileage dropped a lot over the last 6 months as the demands of work took their toll and I had trouble rationalizing the time.  I also wasn't enjoying running very much and probably didn't try as hard to "get it in" as I would.  I'd try to make it more efficient by doing more workouts as well.  Running less just stressed me more.  The low was when I bagged an out-of-state marathon I'd signed up for.  Eventually I was watching Google tech talks on youtube and saw a guy dressed as a Buddhist monk (Ricard Matthieu).  He was giving a talk about happiness and meditation.  It made me re-remember one of the key benefits of running, especially slow running, that I'd always been aware of -- it's essentially meditation.  When people would ask what I was thinking about on those long runs, I'd say "everything and nothing." 

                           

                          hey I totally relate to this Smile running in general clears my head too. and low HR running adds something more to that... both faster and slower runs are like meditation but after runs where HR was low enough I feel really totally free of *any* kind of stress. just feel recharged so nicely

                           

                          ok so I wasn't here for a while... I also skipped quite some training due to other things in life. first got ankle issue then just didn't run much due to those other things. I got back on track early december and already gained shape back and made new improvements on top of it... no race reports yet... soon I hope Smile

                           

                          I did one race in november totally out of shape and not all-out effort: half marathon, 1:40:39 (7:40 average pace) with an AHR of 190, that despite it not being full all-out was still pretty high HR... I believe I would have got ~192 for average if racing it all-out. it was a nice experience running it  hard but not so crazy hard... except for the last two kilometers, I did pick it the effort a bit then so that it became uncomfortable then, though I still held back a little bit.

                           

                          officially that's my HM PR now as I didn't run any real HM races before that since november 2010. it clearly doesn't line up with that old 43:48 10K PR either but I can do faster now in both distances... soon going to prove it in real races! Smile


                          Consistently Slow

                             

                             

                             


                            I did one race in november totally out of shape and not all-out effort: half marathon, 1:40:39 (7:40 average pace) with an AHR of 190, that despite it not being full all-out was still pretty high HR...

                             

                            officially that's my HM PR now as I didn't run any real HM races before that since november 2010. it clearly doesn't line up with that old 43:48 10K PR either but I can do faster now in both distances... soon going to prove it in real races! Smile

                             

                            Sweet! I will not it  1:40 xx  in my best of condition.

                            Run until the trail runs out.

                            2014***1500 miles 09/28/14

                            50miler 13:26:18

                            Race Less Train More

                             Pistol 100 ----01/03/15

                            Ana Trason  "Living Her Life"

                            "The Marble in The Groove"

                             

                            unsolicited chatter

                            http://bkclay.blogspot.com/


                            Consistently Slow

                              Little Rock marathon. Did the early start.  Official time 5:58:41. I did stop by my hotel for about 20 minutes to take off some of my cloths Cool. I looked up a there it was.Two  blocks away.  25F at the start. Mile 15 close to a mile uphill. The  downhill was the problem.  8 hour drive for a 6 hour run. Back on the road 1 hour after crossing the finish line.

                              https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=552600558113865&set=o.127622753933981&type=1&relevant_count=1&ref=nf

                              Run until the trail runs out.

                              2014***1500 miles 09/28/14

                              50miler 13:26:18

                              Race Less Train More

                               Pistol 100 ----01/03/15

                              Ana Trason  "Living Her Life"

                              "The Marble in The Groove"

                               

                              unsolicited chatter

                              http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

                                Ran my local 14K race today.  Started out not too bad, low 50's and wind around 15 mph, but by the end of the race the wind was up to 30 mph gusting to almost 40 mph.  Long story short, I met my goal by 1 second this time.  Final time 1:09:59 for a 8:03 avg pace.

                                 

                                The first 4.5 miles went really well, had a tailwind for about 2 of those miles and was rocking along at an average pace of 7:50 per mile feeling really good and then turned smack into the wind.  The nice little 15 mph tailwind had increased to 30 mph and winds were gusting up to 38 mph.  We were on a dirt/gravel road and the wind was picking up big clouds of dirt and sandblasting us.  It was brutal.  My bluetooth headset actually blew off from around my neck twice and I had to just carry it in my hand.  I couldn't look ahead, just shuffled along looking about 3 feet in front of me.  My splits balloned up to 8:46 on mile 6 and 8:55 on mile 7.  Finally we turned so the wind was a cross wind and was able to start running again.  Mile 8 picked back up to a 7:49 and then I turned with the wind for the last half mile or so and the last split was at a 7:16 pace.

                                 

                                Here's my splits.

                                Splits (GPS Interval)
                                 TypeDistance Split settingsDurationTotal DurationPaceAvg HRMax HRNotes
                                1 Manual 1 mi 7:49.68 7:49.68 7:50 160 169  
                                2 Manual 1 mi 7:46.35 15:36.03 7:47 165 172  
                                3 Manual 1 mi 7:50.22 23:26.25 7:51 168 172  
                                4 Manual 1 mi 7:51.53 31:17.78 7:52 170 174  
                                5 Manual 1 mi 8:01.96 39:19.74 8:02 173 178  
                                6 Manual 1 mi 8:45.99 48:05.73 8:46 177 182  
                                7 Manual 1 mi 8:55.43 57:01.16 8:56 174 177  
                                8 Manual 1 mi 7:48.38 1:04:49.54 7:49 175 180  
                                9 Manual 0.71 mi 5:09.46 1:09:59 7:16 179 184

                                 

                                One neat thing that I got to experience on this race was having a front row seat to the overall women's race unfoldking in front of me.  They were side by side until they turned out of the wind just before mile 7 and one put on a spurt and got about 20 yards ahead of the other and never looked back.

                                 

                                My time on this same race last year was a 1:19:28 for a 9:09 avg pace so this was a full minute per mile faster this year than last year so I'm pretty happy with that.

                                 

                                Nathan

                                Age: 46 Weight: 200 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                                Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27