Low HR Training

"Anaerobic" Phase HRT (over MAF) Reports & Discussion (Read 6005 times)

    C-R, what model is your Garmin and do you ever get any erratic readings from it within the first 5-10 minutes of a run?

     

    The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

     

    2014 Goals:

     

    Stay healthy

    Enjoy life

     

    C-R


      C-R, what model is your Garmin and do you ever get any erratic readings from it within the first 5-10 minutes of a run?

       Its a 305 and the erratic readings seems to be caused by not having a good connection since I haven't created enough sweat to make the connection. I on't use gels and usually just use saliva which works fine except in the winter. I usually discard the first mile during winter running and consider it an easy warm-up. Rarely would I ever exceed my limits. Hope that helps.


      "He conquers who endures" - Persius
      "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel

        Yeah that helps. My Garmin does it most times and its a little frustrating. I have to walk a crap ton for the first half mile or so and really throughs me off. I started to think its my older 301 model that has the erratic readins since I rarely read about other models doing this. I have been using gel to no avail. I swear if it doesn't settle in quickly, the entire run seems like the HR readings will be high.

         

        Yesterday I went for a long run and after my HR monitor wouldn't settle down, I decided to just go with my calculated Zone 2. (143-157) Its higher then MAF but still LHR. I averaged 150 for 11.3 miles on a very hilly course. If this is the way its going to be during the winter, I'm going to stick with Zone 2 running.

         

        The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

         

        2014 Goals:

         

        Stay healthy

        Enjoy life

         

        C-R


          Long run today and wanted to make it a hard workout. Part of my quality vs quantity debate for marathon tng. So I decided to do the Yasso 10x800 at goal marathon time pace (3:15 or less) with equal recovery. Wrapped this with 5 wu and 3 cd miles. No clue on HOUR as I ran by feel but I avg 3:02 and did not feel winded at all. Let's see how that plays out for Disney in 3 weeks.


          "He conquers who endures" - Persius
          "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel


          Consistently Slow

            I have tried the Yasso 800. Injured before the marathon so not sure how well it worked. Looking for to your results.

            Run until the trail runs out.

            2013***1500 miles

            50 miler

            Race Less Train More

             

            Ana Trason  "Living Her Life"

            "The Marble in The Groove"

             

            unsolicited chatter

            http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

            jimmyb


            port-a-bella-potty

              After a year of base-work in a very stressed out period in my life, I took four weeks off from running and returned in a Maffetonian (Dr. Phillian?) anaerobic phase (HR's above MAF), seeing if I need some balance between my energy systems.  So far so good, my MAF tests are improving. I am doing an anaerobic threshold run once a week, building from 20 to 40 minutes over time. These are run at my AT of 176 bpm, which equates to 89-90% MHR. The rest of my runs are done mostly at or below MAF, with some time at the end of long runs near 70% HRR (153 bpm). 2-3 times per week I am cross-training at MAF on stationary bike, along with a strength/yoga workout that includes light weights (dumbells) and lots of reps on arms, pushups, yoga postures, and core-strengthening exercises. I'm attempting to strengthen my whole body, as well as increase range of motion.

               

              Monday, I decided to do a 2 hour run where I got my HR to my MAF of 133 bpm by the 30-minute point, then just held that speed to see what my HR would do. Here's what happened:

               

              13:20  114
              12:51  126
              12:45  133 (MAF 64/36)
              12:45  138
              12:45  142
              12:43  144
              12:45  145
              12:45  146 (50/50)
              12:31  145
              04:43  146

              My HR rose and then just hung out for almost an hour in a small zone of 144-146. I wonder what it means, if anything. Of course, there is a point, at a given effort, where your HR should stop rising. It won't keep climbing until you reach MHR. The effort didn't feel any harder at 146, than when it was 133, except for a bit of tiredness.

              I just took a look at my RQ test, and 146 is my 50% / 50% fat/sugar HR (.85 on the RQ). THus, in RQ-land, my zone ran from 64/36 to 50/50 at the same effort. Plateauing at 50/50. Below is my RQ test for reference (you can see my MAF plateau at 133-134 bpm and my 50/50 point at 146 bpm). Any thoughts about this plateau at 146?

              --Jimmy

               

              Log    PRs

                Good stuff Jimmy, glad to hear that your strengthening your whole body with all of that cross training. I know I feel best when I am swimming, running, and lifting (and yoga when I have time). I feel that it balances out your body the best and overall makes you a better/stronger runner and more healthy.
                jimmyb


                port-a-bella-potty

                  2 hour run today. Ran 10 miles for the first time in a long time.  My body still seems to be responding to this anaerobic phase. Earned the coming recovery week.

                   

                  My HR got up to 70% HRR by the end of the run. I've been doing my medium and long runs with that HR as a cap.  The only time I'm spending above 70% is the once a week AT run, currently 22 minutes. 70%HRR is the HR ceiling prescribed for aerobic runs in John L. Parker's "Heart Rate Training For The Compleat Idiot."  A very good book, but out of print these days. When I am not in MAF base phase I find these runs to be stimulating but not overly taxing like a Pfitzinger aerobic run, which takes it about 10-12 bpm higher.

                   

                  tm 1%  dp 49
                  13:02  116
                  12:31  126
                  11:53  136
                  11:45  142
                  11:45  146
                  11:44  147
                  11:44  149
                  11;45  149
                  11:45  150
                  11:45  153
                  00:16  153

                   

                   2:00:00  10.02

                  11:59 pace

                   

                  --Jimmy

                   

                  Log    PRs

                  C-R


                    Those are very consistant numbers. Looks like the training plan is paying dividends for you. Great to see.


                    "He conquers who endures" - Persius
                    "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel

                    lowgear1


                    Max McMaffelow Esq.

                      Observations, post Super Bowl

                       

                      Resurrection:
                      1. The act of rising from the dead or returning to life.
                      2. The state of one who has returned to life.
                      3. The act of bringing back to practice, notice, or use; revival.

                      All is not lost.
                      Witness the continuing exploits of Elvis, The Who, Freddy, Jason, and most recently Michael Jackson. Anybody catch "Doritto Boy" exiting the casket? Fresh, crisp!
                      Now what's become of that old stiff Al Gore??

                      I've revived my training. Admittedly, I've gone off reservation, but it's been so worth it!!
                      Lately, it's a mix of maf and maf plus (the other "A" workout) (gasp). Been having fun, and what a perfect time for it. We've been in the throes of one of the worst winters on record, and while running outdoors, in snow, my heart rate goes maf plus, just to overcome traction issues. I say "why fight it". It's all good, too. The times when I do revert to a sub maf warm-up, my opening mile or so has improved in pace. Details soon.

                      Long live Mick Jagger!

                      WHO DAT!!

                      lg

                      ♪ ♫ Hey, hey, we're Maf Monkees And people say we monkey around. ♪ ♫ (The Monkees)
                      Give me 12:59 in '09, please. I deserve it! (Maf of course)..No more teens! No more teens! (ME! ME! ME!)
                      ♪ ♫ I Thank The Lord For The Night Time...And I Thank The Lord For You ♪ ♫ (Neil Diamond)
                      C-R


                        I was just getting over the SB and LG's post just pulled the scab off that one.

                         

                        5k race this morning. 20:07. ABout a minute off my PR but I've been doing no speedwork. I did dig pretty hard for mile 3. Also it was 18 at the start and we had freezing fog this morning but those are excuses not reasons and we don't do excuses here. However, it does set well for this summer and fall.

                         

                        I ran 5.4 prior to the race with a friend along the canals. This was all done at less than MAF. Lots of fun and I think I may have convinced him to give LHR a serious shot. We'll see.

                         


                        "He conquers who endures" - Persius
                        "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel


                        Consistently Slow

                          WTG. 18F with a 5 mile warm up. Missed a PR by 1 minute. I wish for  those days.

                          Run until the trail runs out.

                          2013***1500 miles

                          50 miler

                          Race Less Train More

                           

                          Ana Trason  "Living Her Life"

                          "The Marble in The Groove"

                           

                          unsolicited chatter

                          http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

                          jimmyb


                          port-a-bella-potty

                            Anaerobic/Lactate Threshold Run

                            79ºF  55%H  61º dewpoint

                            20:00

                            2.19 miles 

                            9:08 ave pace

                            HR Zone 170-180 bpm (80-85% HRR)

                             

                            Some improvement over last weeks AT run,

                            despite it being the hottest temps I've run in this year.

                            So far, my body seems to be handling the heat much better

                            this year (knock on wood!).I'm purposefully keeping the room

                            hot as I want to acclimate. My current training schedule seems

                            to be working okay. The goal race is the Peachtree 10k. It's basically this:

                             

                            --1 medium long run 60-70 minutes run at MAF. Essentially a weekly MAF test.

                            --1 AT run 20+ minutes (80-85% HRR). 25 minute warm-up.

                             

                            --1 long run aprox 2:00+, MAF-20 to MAF. Stabilize at MAF-20 by the end of

                            25 minutes, then hold that speed until my HR tops out at MAF. Once I have to

                            slow down to stay at MAF, I end the run.

                             

                            --3 recovery runs  sub MAF-15 on easy days. 30-50 minutes.

                            --1 rest day

                             

                             Warmup takes 20-25 minutes for each run. Cooldown is a 20-30 minute walk.

                            The Peachtree is a goal race, but I will be running three to four 5-10k races before

                            that one comes along. I'm thinking keeping most of my time deep into the sub-MAF

                            regions, except for the 20 minute AT tempo run, will help my body recover and adapt.

                            This is one experiment I haven't tried yet. Usually, in the past I would start with AT runs

                            and then also start running above MAF on long runs. Wish me luck!

                             

                            --Jimmy

                            Log    PRs

                            gregw


                              I'm experimenting myself.  You can take a look at my log, but I'm doing one "moderate" run every 3rd or 4th day depending on how I'm feeling and a lot of doubles.  I've also cut down my long run, which really seems to be helping me recover.  The moderate run gets up a little below 160 (max is 200) for the hardest miles.  I just let the moderate runs come to me.  I did one yesterday and the way it works is I notice my legs going faster than usual in the first mile and my brain says "hey, you've been running easy for a couple of days" and so I just stick with it.  I've already maxed out the schedule with 10 hours a week and I think, if anything, the intensity will let me burn some more kcals in the same 10 hours.  (Of course I just spent all those kcals on an entire medium pizza for dinner.)

                               

                              I've thought of trying Parker's HR schedules, but frankly they scare me.  I'm a wimp when it comes to intensity.

                               

                              Good luck at Peachtree, Jimmy.  I grew up in Atlanta and was supposed to run it the summer after 8th grade.  My uncle as going to take me.  I wanted to go out with my girlfriend the night before though and my parents said I couldn't run the race if I did, so you can guess what I chose.  20 years later my uncle said he'd run Marine Corps if I did.  This time he bowed out and I ran!  Payback I guess.

                                looks like, I'll have some reports here soon. because after completing 6 weeks of my first MAF base building session, I have a couple of races that I've been planning for a long time.. so I will go and do them. (but I like MAF'ing and so I will keep most runs MAF in this period too) then I will go back to base building for a couple more months.

                                I'll do a MAF test before and after and see if anything changes.