RunningAHEAD - Topic: Thu July 10 Runs and Workouts

HandyMom

posted: 7/10/2008 at 1:58 PM

3 easy miles with my DD last night. Was cool to have her along. I always seem to be nursing a sore ankle. It doesn't bother me when I run, but usually will get stiff after I run. I think I'm figuring out that I am not stretching enough afterward, so I'm going to try to change that up and pay more attention. So much to learn. Some of you run so fast, you'd be a blur to me if we were to pass on the path when your running at your "easy" pace. This is not a goal of mine or anything...but I can still look in awe. Healing vibes to all that are injured or even just sore...Janet

Runrtim57

Marathon Maniac #3309

posted: 7/10/2008 at 2:02 PM

Quote from Holly S. on 7/10/2008 at 1:29 PM:

re foot strike. Now I am confused. I’m reading Core Performance Endurance and it tells you to lift the toes as you run, so they don’t droop down, and land more of a mid-foot strike.

Um...I need to think about that when I run tonight. Toes up would indicate heel strike to me. Tim

Running has given me the courage to start, the determination to keep trying, and the childlike spirit to have fun along the way - Run often and run long, but never outrun your Joy of running!

Spareribs

King of PhotoShop

posted: 7/10/2008 at 2:19 PM

Jlynne, I wasn't suggesting you buy those shoes. They are over $150 and they are not right for everyone. Some people wreck their achilles or calves with them. I was suggesting you scroll down on that page and just look at the graphic of the two runners, one with the heel strike and one with the mid-foot strike. Spareribs

Holly S.

Marathon Maniac #957

posted: 7/10/2008 at 2:19 PM
modified: 7/10/2008 at 2:36 PM

No, not heel strike, just not running with toes drooping down to the ground is what it says, that the foot needs to be "dorsiflexed" so you push from the glutes and have more of a full-foot strike. Who knows, maybe this is not entirely different from a fore-foot strike, but the pictures make it look mid-foot. I wish someone could watch my form when I run, because I know I could use some improvement there, but it's so hard to see yourself, and I'd love it if someone could tell me specifically.

Life is a headlong rush into the unknown. We can hunker down and hope nothing hits us or we can stand tall, lean into the wind and say, "Bring it on, darlin', and don't be stingy with the jalapenos."

Dave59

posted: 7/10/2008 at 2:50 PM
modified: 7/10/2008 at 3:48 PM

Quote from Holly S. on 7/10/2008 at 2:19 PM:

I wish someone could watch my form when I run

It seems to me, when a lot of people say "forefoot" they really mean "mid-foot" and not up on your toes. I remember watching the Boston marathon one year. I recorded some of it and watched the lead runners in super-duper slow motion. They seem to be hitting mid-foot to my eyes. The key things for me is what Ribs video showed. Keep your center of gravity over your foot strike and don't reach out (or stride out) too far. That will naturally give you less heel strike without even trying. When I am in good shape and feeling good, I visualize a cheetah racing along with my feet almost grabbing the ground and propelling me forward. (Any large cat will do but I like cheetahs. Smile

) It doesn't work too good at my current weight. Too much mass to propel forward.

breger1

posted: 7/10/2008 at 2:59 PM

Heel strikers are generally overstriding in that their foot reaches out in front of the body line and (naturally) the heel will tend to strike first. Here is a tip from a book I am reading that will help you with this tendency. Bill Falling Forward "Tilt your whole body slightly forward as you run. Don't bend at the waist. Tilt your entire body from the ankles. When you're first getting a feel for this proprioceptive cue, feel free to exaggerate your lean to the point where you feel you're about to fall on your face. Then ease back to a point where you feel comfortable and in control, but gravity still seems to be pulling you forward. This cue will help you correct overstriding, because when you're running with a slight forward tilt in your body, your feet will naturally land close to your center of gravity.

"Some are the strong, silent type. You can't put your finger on exactly what it is they bring to the table until you run without them and then you realize that their steadiness fills a hole that leaks energy in their absence." - Kristin Armstrong

Tramps

posted: 7/10/2008 at 3:22 PM

Or this from Laurie Anderson: "You're walking. And you don't always realize it, but you're always falling. With each step you fall forward slightly. And then catch yourself from falling. Over and over, you're falling. And then catching yourself from falling. And this is how you can be walking and falling at the same time." Big grin

Be safe. Be kind.

Jlynne

posted: 7/10/2008 at 3:47 PM

Spareribs - I know you weren't promoting the shoes and I feel guilty enough paying $120 for my Gel Nimbus. They were interesting, though. Now, all this talk about footstrike is confusing me. This is from "Runner's World Guide to Injury Prevention" which I started reading yesterday: "The most natural foot strike when running distance is to land first on the outer rear portion of the heel and then let the foot rool forward and inward until pushoff from the forefoot. (A minority of runners will naturally land on their midfoot).) Avoid landing on the front of your foot. This is a classic mistake and often stems from misguided childhood gym-class instruction on sprinting. If you land on your toes, surely you're already wondering why running hurts so much and how people can possibly run as far as they do. Form check: To learn a more natural foot strike, try walking fast and then transitioning into a shuffle-jog. Let your foot go through its natural heel-toe motion as your walk becomes a jog. As you pick up speed, notice how this heel-toe motion becomes one blended movement. Feet should ideally also be pointing straight ahead, not out to the side or inward. If your natural foot strike is "wrong" - feet pointing somewhere other than forward, weight coming down on the inside of your foot - then you're a prime candidate for corrective footware." Comments??? Only on page 35 and I've learned a lot.... Jeanne

Spareribs

King of PhotoShop

posted: 7/10/2008 at 4:08 PM

Very good points Dave, Bill and Tramps. Mid-foot, not forefoot. And Jeanne, that quote from RW is maybe the top reason why people continue to buy more and more fortified shoes, running heel to toe, and continue to get injured. Not to keep playing the old guy card, but I bet there are people here old as I am who remember the cross country and track shoes of the 60's. If you do, please post about how much support the old shoes had, and then comment on how much less we were injured back then. For the first time in my life I feel like I actually NEED Tet to post! Spareribs

Jlynne

posted: 7/10/2008 at 4:55 PM

I was in high school in the 60's and I remember the guy's track shoes. (That was before Title IX - there was no girls' track team - but don't get me started!) There was nothing to those shoes! No support, not 10 thousand choices like there are now - just a basic shoe. And you're right, Spareribs, there weren't many injuries back in those days. I remember the coaches giving the guys salt pills before meets to help with cramping. Now, unless you go to a specialty store and someone analyzes your running style, you're never sure if you're buying the right type of shoe. I've also discovered you can pick up four different running books and get four different perspectives on the correct way to run. Unless you're a serious athlete (and there are many on this site), are you better off going with your natural foot strike/stride, or trying to adapt what comes natural into something else???? I know what Holly means, though. I'm sure my form isn't correct, and I was probably lucky to not have been injured sooner. I think age is finally catching up with me... Sad

Jeanne

stumpy77

Trails are hard!

posted: 7/10/2008 at 5:03 PM

holly--I'd love to watch your form while you run, but I doubt I be able to tell you much Wink

Need a fast half for late fall. Then I need to actually train for it.

Runrtim57

Marathon Maniac #3309

posted: 7/10/2008 at 5:12 PM

I know one thing that helped me change my gait to fore-foot / mid-foot (I always think of them as the same in my mind) was running on grass barefoot...it's nearly impossible for your heel to touch the ground. Which I think is similar in theory to the old track shoes some of us remember. And no, I don't remember anyone really having injuries back then either. Interesting topic today, Tim

Running has given me the courage to start, the determination to keep trying, and the childlike spirit to have fun along the way - Run often and run long, but never outrun your Joy of running!

deez4boyz

posted: 7/10/2008 at 5:13 PM

Quote from stumpy77 on 7/10/2008 at 5:03 PM:

holly--I'd love to watch your form while you run, but I doubt I be able to tell you much

men men men!! Wink

you guys are amusing!! now i have to finish primping for BON JOVI!!!!!!!! can't wait!!!!!!! have a great night all!! oh ya running - no run for me today -- felt good back at work last night and my little bit of speedwork yesterday seems to have agreed with me -- thanks for the encouragement Deb!! ok BON JOVI here i come!!!!!!!!!! Big grin

denise

Spareribs

King of PhotoShop

posted: 7/10/2008 at 6:20 PM

Okay, off topic for a bit. On July 2 I flew first class, flt. 2559 from Newark to DFW. It was a perfect flight. We boarded on time, even had a great meal, tossed salad with salmon, and got in early. Totally uneventful. Just now I got this from American: "Dear Mr. LaMothe: Our manager in Newark was concerned and asked us to follow up with you regarding your flight with us on July 2. We can understand how frustrating that trip must have been. We are very sorry for all the difficulties you encountered when flight 2559 unexpectedly returned to the airport. As our personnel indicated at the time, a mechanical problem developed en route to Dallas/Fort Worth. As a result, the decision was made to return to Newark so our specialists could take a look at the situation. While our personnel worked hard to minimize the inconvenience, we know that many of our customers' important plans were disrupted. I am truly sorry. In appreciation for your patience, we've added 5,000 Customer Service bonus miles to your AAdvantage® account. You should see this mileage adjustment in your account very soon, and you can view this activity via AA.com at http://www.aa.com/AAdvantage. I hope this gesture of goodwill helps restore your confidence in us. Your loyalty is important to us and I would like to assure you that we are committed to getting you to your destination as planned. Sometimes, as on July 2, flights won't operate as planned but our goal is to keep those times to a minimum. I know your next trip with us will go much more smoothly than this one did. We will look forward to welcoming you on board soon. Sincerely, B. J. Russell Customer Relations American Airlines" My flight never returned to the gate, and the flight number is the same. Definitely not a flight I remember being on! Go figure. Spareribs

dg.

posted: 7/10/2008 at 7:22 PM
modified: 7/10/2008 at 7:32 PM

Ribs, re American. Makes you confidant that they have it all under control, doesn't it? I've been thinking about foot-strike lately too. I just looked in a couple of my books. One recommends forefoot landings.. not really on your toes, it says the whole foot is ok, but with your weight on the forefoot. He says to practice getting a sense of this by bouncing. Skipping around like a boxer. "this is a great way to develop quickness and elastic recoil"... "the key is to help the nervous system develp speed of response.. to get off the ground as quickly as possible". Holly, another one of my books also says to raise your toe when your shin swings out, to have a short lever. .. Then to land midfoot -- same reasons as the other book. To prevent braking, and for better recoil. Did your book (I like him, that's whose DVD I'm doing) say to land with your toes dorsiflexed? Dave59, I liked your cougar mental image. I don't think I could feel like a cougar Wink

. when most of my parts are working, & esp. when I'm going fast, for me anyway, my visualization is that my feet aren't really landing, but are more like just briefly tapping the ground to propel me forward. I don't know if that makes sense, or even if it's good. But it's fun. Twocat, thanks for the musical suggestion! It's perfect. I just got to listen... kept forgetting when I was home, no sound on my pc at work. Janet, i hope your ankle is ok. Just don't do what I do... whenever I try to fix anything, I go overboard in that too. I've overstretched a lot, especially tendons. Maybe you could get some good advice on just how much is good from the wise ones on the board. You always sound like you're enjoying your running. Smile

. Tramps, thanks. I hope you are ok. Jeanne, I'm sorry about your hip. Divechief, Shocked

. that really stinks!!! After all you've been through. What happened at your appointment?

Masters Running

Thu July 10 Runs and Workouts (Read 544 times)