Also, if you utilize lots of ellipsises (ellipses?), you have periodized.

Which I do. Probably not as much as parentheses . Mahalo/gracias/謝謝/thank you for the definition!

I see the sentence start with "nono" and I just expect that the next piece will say that I am incorrect. Heh. Yes indeedy to the much longer phases. I was just playing the sample example game.

And because it is fun!

I was wondering when someone was going to bring that part up... And also that it makes TM time go by quickly, if you are stuck inside.

Nono, you might benefit from reading Lydiard's entire speech to the Japanese, in which he does a better job of explaining the importance of a big aerobic buildup. Lydiard was a great speaker but a poor writer, and one of the complaints about his writing is that it was often difficult to get precision about his workouts. That is why he co-wrote with Garth Gilmour. You can find the speech at this link: http://www.pinebeltpacers.org/Lydiard/Lydiard.html (And maybe someone will teach me how to make the link "live" as Tim did for me on the last one I posted.) Note the area where the graphic is and read that carefully. What Lydiard is trying to demonstrate is that the ability to develop the anaerobic system is finite and not great, but that there is almost no limit to how well you can develop your aerobic capacity, and that takes TIME. I might also add that Lydiard was not an advocate of LSD. He had his runners at a quick pace all the time. SLOW was only for recovery, and much of daily training was at steady state pace, which many of you do now. Lydiard would have called wave runs aerobic, for example. Spareribs

Ribs, there is a link tab above to the right of the cross out tab.( 5th one over going to the right) Click on the tab, then copy what ever website or information you are trying to lead people to. Then paste this in the middle between the > <....there ya go,a live link. tim ya="" go,a="" live="" link.=""></....there ya go,a live link. tim>

This is a great conversation! Thanks for starting this Ribs. No single method works for everyone and that makes this sport interesting and even frustrating at times. Since I am on the DL right now, I am thinking about the next training plan so I continue to employ what works and avoid (my) mistakes. Marathon pace runs, tempo runs, and dynamic runs on the roads are the difference makers for me in this phase of my running life. A few years ago I asked my college coach to help me get serious about racing again. I wanted to bring my marathon time down, but also learn to feel the right pace at many different race distances. I don’t use a Garmin except for when I am on the road in a new place and want to know distance. It was important then to develop a plan that was flexible and made use of my love of running outdoors and on hilly courses. She had a few important guidelines she insisted I follow: run any non-workout runs without a watch and at a relaxed pace (she calls these shuffle jogs or shag runs---quiet Roy!), work on core strength, stability, and flexibility at least 3x week, try not to WIN every workout---leave that for race day, work on consistency and feeling pace. She was my track and cross-country coach and knows my tendency to run from the front and then hold on for dear life to hit the tape. Since my main goal was to lower marathon times, she kept me off the track and away from short/sprint intervals. Once my mileage hit 40 mpw, she had me do long workouts (2x week) with an emphasis on pacing and stamina. Since many of my routes are hilly, I incorporated them into ongoing workouts instead of a proscribed set of weeks devoted to hills. If you apply periodization here you can see base/endurance building then pacing/stamina work and then speed/sharpening in the last weeks before a target race. My favorite marathon training runs include: Tempo torture runs (once base mileage hits 40-45 mpw): 14-16 miles run every two weeks usually mid-week---20 minutes wu at 8:30-9 pace/3-4x 20-25 minutes at 7:15 pace with 3-4 minute rest intervals/20 minutes cd at 8:30-9 pace. As I hit peak mileage in a training cycle (70 mpw) the rest interval decreases. I look at my watch at the start of the tempo stretches and not again until it feels like I am nearing the end of each segment. MP/Long runs (once base mileage hits 55-60 mpw)---18-22 milers every weekend---combination of fast finish runs where the first 9-10 miles are run at 9:00-9:30 pace and the next 8 miles are run at 7:30 pace or as a progressive series getting down to 7:15-7:30 pace with the last mile easy. I also try to run 2-3 long runs or races at test MP. Dynamic runs or dynos (short ones included in base building phase to mix it up and longer ones below once mileage is 60 mpw or more and I am in the sharpening phase): 6-10 miles in alternating weeks with the tempo torture runs----it’s a fartlek style run with an emphasis on maintaining pace in the rest intervals at a decent clip so it’s fluid-----1x10 (60), 3x 7 (45), 4x 5(30), 5x 3(15), 10x1 (10),5 x 3 (15),4x5 (30), 3x7 (45)1x10 (60) The first number is the number of repetitions and the next number is the rest interval in minutes. The number in parentheses is the speed segment in seconds. 1x 10 (60) means you run for 10 minutes and then speed up for 60 seconds all out and you do that just once, then move on to running for 7 minutes with a speed up of 45 seconds and so forth. It seems complex, but once you get the hang of it, the time zooms by like it does on a wave run. You have to look at your watch a good bit, but after several of these I can hit the times without the watch pretty well. Sandwich runs or race tempo runs: Coach calls these sandwich runs because you sandwich an actual race in here after ample warm up and cool down. She favors doing this with 5ks. I am lucky in that there are some weekly series races here that go pretty much all year and are close by. These were typically nine -mile workouts---run 3 to the 5k, run the 5k hard (7:00-7:15 pace) and run 3 home. The 5k I chose is on a hilly course in the woods. Group single file speed runs: I am lucky to run with a group on a fairly regular basis. If our schedules are in synch we will do this in the last several weeks leading up to a marathon. During a long run of 18 miles or more we run single file and the person at the end of the line sprints up to the head of the line while everyone else holds pace. We’ll do this continuously between miles 6-15. It’s fun and makes the miles go by quickly. It’s a great way to goad each other too (support each other I mean). So why am I on the DL if I believe in periodization and steady pacing? Remember the rules about not winning workouts and core work? I got lazy on the core work after I ran a marathon in October ’08 and was so mad at myself for falling in that race, that I ramped it right back up again---took an easy week off and then hammered a bunch of long runs on completely flat surfaces (constant pounding of the now weaker muscles). My left IT band got very angry at me and the bursitis in my right hip decided to come out and play as well. I hope this is useful in some way and perhaps falls under the observations category of the original and excellent post by Ribs. It is said that you learn the most from your mistakes, so make BIG ones and learn lots. I’ll be working on building core strength and stability and then building my base back up. No marathon again until the Fall of ’09. I have a score to settle.

I could see Moose's training plan....very little speedwork, just a MP run thrown in there every now and again.... as working well if you were just interested in marathoning. Generally, one's MP isn't anaerobic, and longer MP-ish runs are better conditioning for a marathon (generally speaking) Walt

Yup... I should make it clear - I'm only interested in marathons. I run very few 5Ks or other shorter distances... I tried to concentrate on them a couple of years ago (and won a couple of small local races) - but was never very good at them, I've never enjoyed them or training for them. Ray

I've been busy and lost track of this thread. Having had a chance to catch up, I just wanted to thank Karin for that terrific post. I've certainly copied it and saved it for future reference. One question: "I also try to run 2-3 long runs or races at test MP." Do you do a full 18-20 miles at MP?

The risk of injury is definitely enhanced in MP pace runs. I agree. I don't get up to MP until the end of the of the first mile and I do slow it down a bit in the last mile. So an 18 mile MP run is really only 16 at MP and the 20 MP runs are only 18 at MP. The goal may be 2-3 of these at most in a training cycle, but if it's not going well and the pace is unsteady, it's scrapped. I have been doing these for a long time, so this is not something to try for a first marathon by any stretch. The recovery time is also key. I am 44 and MP runs age us in dog years----so after 3 marathons I am probably 231 yrs. old----probably right on some days! CNY