good morning & happy 4th! picture perfect IRC in mi. Roy, that was very thoughtful of you. thanks. I'll echo your wishes for people everywhere. Happy birthday Peter! Jeanne, what happened to your hip? Holly, . onward & upward. but (this was unintentional) I think you should be really careful on those hills. maybe the dk's could pull you home in a wagon. Lou, hope you're better soon. welcome home to you both. waving hi to fjord susan & pelle. I went to the gym this morning, was happy they were open! but not till 7:00, which is their usual weekend opening time. Half the day's gone by the time you get home. I think 9:30 is too late for me to eat. I nuked some oatmeal & hit the wrong buttons... the oatmeal was all over the microwave tray, perfectly cooked. I actually looked at it longingly for a minute & thought... no. Not even I am that tacky. Sadie liked it though. I cut back a little again as my knee & hammies have been just a little sore lately, & because i have a full day of outside work planned. So 25 min. on the arc trainer, 20 on the elliptical, 15 on the recumbant bike. I'd thought maybe i could go up stairs & try just a tiny run on the track to see how it went... it was the carrot to get me through the other stuff. But when I was done with that I knew I really shouldn't. tried just a few steps, it isn't time yet. Soon I hope. elliptical entertainment.. npr had a recipe for spam sushi. anybody want it? TW, Total Tranquility sounds yummy. you've earned it.

vista, I enjoyed the story about your aunt. Also, another great start this 4th of July. deez, it sounds like a fantastic 5K and celebrating with your running club. Dave, I've never done Frankenmuth but it sounds neat with 4 RA people there. CNY, seeing a young black bear on my path would sure get my adrenalin going. evan, I'm sorry to hear you're sick. I hope it is short lived. teresa, you've sure had more than your share of bad "stuff". I hope the sun is shinning in your world today. Tall, happy birthday wishes to your daughter. It sounds like you did well. Peter, happy birthday to you. DickyG, don't be discouraged about your race. You ran wisely considering your recent injury. You were out there "picking them up and putting them down" as untold thousands slept in or sat on the couch. Sarge, nice 4 mile race. Nice long runs for biketm and peter. Good job on the speedwork for perch. This morning, it was about 50, calm, and clear. I got in 7 miles in a bit under 1:09 for a 9:50 pace. My daughter ran with me the first two miles which we did at about a 10 min pace. A good day and good runs for all. TomS

I THOUGHT he was saying that being patriotic was viewed by some as being in allegiance to God. This may be an over simplification of what I have seen, but it appears that church going people are more passionate about freedom and the direction of the country. Joey

Uh, read that again, Joey. I don't know the full context, but the quote seems to be a reminder that the Founding Fathers were, in fact, rejecting the older vision of America that was rooted in Puritan religious values. Jefferson, for example, rejected his Episcopalian upbringing and was essentially a Deist. He believed broadly in some form of Supreme Being but not in a Christian god. He valued the teachings of Christ but rejected the idea that Jesus was divine in any way. (His famous "Jefferson Bible" eliminated references to divinity and mysticism, keeping the moral teachings.) He was a skeptic, once writing, “"Question with boldness even the existence of God; because if there be one, he must more approve the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear." Ironically, he could never get elected president today with such views. But more than anything, he worked for keeping religion and the state separate, thereby ensuring freedom for believers of all stripes and for non-believers alike. Oh, yeah, running...! 5-mile 4th of July fun run for me in very humid weather. 38:06 official time for a nice tempo-paced run.

Stayed up most of the night baking a 25th wedding cake for our dear friends of many, many years. I sorely need a nap, but I decided to go running first. Six glorious miles to celebrate the FREEDOM this country enjoys. As a naturalized citizen of this country, I don't take THIS FREEDOM for granted. Off to the airport to pick up our son who is arriving from Vienna this afternoon. Then on to the Hood Canal for the wedding anniversary. Happy Independence Day America!!!!!

Nice running everybody! Happy 4th! Nice to have a day off! It was a great day. Ran a 4 mile race in a humid 70F and PR'd by a minute and won my Age Group! This was a popular local race with 411 finishers. What was cool is that it ended on the track of a middle school with announment of each runner's name in front of bleachers. Splits were 6:55, 7:17. 7:18, 7:35 (first mile downhill, last uphill) for a finish time 29:05 (7:16 pace). Won $ (gift certificate). Enjoy the 4th! Steve

Posted a race report, so I won't repeat that here. Happy feet though. Nice racing Perch! You too, DickyG even if you are feeling a bit blue----you made it and powered through. That does count! Holly---hopeful news on the injury front. Just don't push too hard now. I am really happy for you. Feel better WRFB. Did you get to Akumal at all?----tip of the Yucatan and gorgeous! Vista, your post is quite thought provoking----freedom, independence, citizenship----all powerful and complex at times too. The meanings hit me in various ways as a woman, as a great-great granddaughter of slaves on my father's side and the daughter of a World War II refugee and immigrant who is not an American citizen (bombed by both the Luftwaffe and the Allies). I am deeply grateful for the choices I am free to make today and for being a citizen of a country that possesses an independent spirit. I also believe that I have much work to do so that my son and his children and their children can enjoy freedom and independence even more. Karin

If only those 56 men had meant that the "men" that they referred to in their writing included all men and women not just a select group. Went for a nearly 13 mile bike ride as I had run three days in a row and needed to change it up! Holly, Great news! Happy to read of your doctor visit! Chris

Uh, read that again, Joey. I don't know the full context, but the quote seems to be a reminder that the Founding Fathers were, in fact, rejecting the older vision of America that was rooted in Puritan religious values. Jefferson, for example, rejected his Episcopalian upbringing and was essentially a Deist. He believed broadly in some form of Supreme Being but not in a Christian god. He valued the teachings of Christ but rejected the idea that Jesus was divine in any way. (His famous "Jefferson Bible" eliminated references to divinity and mysticism, keeping the moral teachings.) He was a skeptic, once writing, “"Question with boldness even the existence of God; because if there be one, he must more approve the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear." Ironically, he could never get elected president today with such views. But more than anything, he worked for keeping religion and the state separate, thereby ensuring freedom for believers of all stripes and for non-believers alike.

Mercy.......I think you are right. This man totally missed the faith aspect of the Founding Fathers in the start of our country. I was so taken by his last quote that said...."It is the vision of a free society. We must be bold enough to proclaim it and strong enough to defend it against all its enemies.", that I failed to see what his first part was saying. Thanks Tramps for pointing that out. Thomas Jefferson was an interesting character for sure. I do not believe that he had a personal redeeming relationship with God, while still obviously believing that there was a God. He once said...."God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed the conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that his justice cannot sleep forever." His "Jefferson Bible" was not for his own use but rather was used as a way to reach the Indians of that day. Out of his life I take note that while he probably was not a follower of God, he definitely was a believer in God. The foundation of our country as a Christian nation is not hard to verify. The inaugural addresses of all the Presidents as well as the Constitution of all fifty of our states, references to the Almighty God. Every session of the House and Senate begins in prayer. Inside the rotunda of the Capitol building there is a picture of the Pilgrim's ship with a chaplain holding an open Bible on his lap. The sail of the ship has written on it the motto of the Pilgrims "In God We Trust, God With Us". The words "In God We Trust" appears opposite the Vice-President's spot in the Senate. The same words are inscribed in marble behind the Speaker of the House of Representatives. In the Supreme Court above the head of the Chief Justice are the Ten Commandments. The crier who opens each session ends his little speech with the words...."God save the United States and the Honorable Court" The Washington Monument has engraved on the top (or so I am told....I have not seen this one) "Praise be to God". On the monument's stairwell are phrases taken from the Bible. The Library of Congress also has numerous quotations from Scripture The same types of quotes can be seen at the Lincoln Memorial and the Jefferson Memorial where the quote I mentioned before from Jefferson is inscribed. Anyway, thanks for reminding me of the GREAT heritage of faith that we have. While I agree on the importance of the separation of church and state, it was probably meant to protect the church from interference from the state, what with the fact these people had left a "state church" atmosphere mainly to gain religious freedom. GOOD thread. Thanks. Six good miles run today, enjoying the change of schedule that a holiday brings. MTA:....Enke....Your question is a good one. Why does God play such an important part? Probably our heritage as a Christian nation is a main reason. No other nation has been founded on quite such a concept of including God. The thriving of our nation would be attributed by many as being a result of this "Godly foundation". As well there is the belief that God honors a nation that honors Him. This is probably one of the main reasons that many get concerned when God is taken out of a aspect of our American culture.