hopeful4ever sometimes any diet "help," is well help! nonoruns careful about that knee. While the 40/0 club was fun you really do not want to join it! I hope the rain lets up. WillRunForBeer I have found all sorts of problems with Garmins like when they turn themselves on and burning up their batteries while you sleep. I am not sure but it seems to me they have some odd programming issues. breger1 boy can I sympathize! I always wonder the same thing - how did I run a race at this pace? Jlynne good to see another member of TM haters of the world! Welcome to the club! Tramps IRC! I am so jealous! It is cold and raining steadily here. dg. nice run. I suspect that for non-professional athletes our body fat level is determined by our weight. But it is clear from some commentary that weight training to build muscle will also reduce it. I am not sure though how much of that you would need to do. DickyG at 99 Zycams a pop I hope you have a way to get them wholesale! perchcreek as always a good run! Holly S. I am not fond of running in the cold but I too find it "improves" as the winter wears on and I get acclimated. Of course, the first day of spring when it hits 65 or so is still great! Twocat I wanted to take a minute and explain that my handle is not due to the fact that I am grammatically challenged. (Editor: But you are grammatically challenged. Twocat: Well, yes, but that is not why there is no "s" at the end!) Here is where my handle comes from. A long time friend of mine is Chinese American. She named her cats in Chinese and they do not have plurals. As the years went by the various cats ended up with names of Onecat, Twocat, Three-Three, Fourcat, and on and on. (Three-Three was due to the fact that if you mispronounce Threecat it sounds a bit like Dead Cat, and she did not want that.) Anyway, as you should have guessed by now my handle is a tribute to the second cat she owned, alas long since deceased. It is cold and raining here. It is supposed to clear up later on. If it does I will see about doing a run. I am running the local 5 mile Turkey Trot here on Thursday. But in a moment of mental weakness I volunteered to help with race setup and packet hand-out tomorrow from 4-6pm. Oh well, maybe it will be good for my karma quotient.

Breger-Nice intervals... I'm on a diet now too...NO MORE DORITOS!!! Rest day for me...back at it hard tomorrow Dicky G-Obviously he didn't understand bear foreplay

I do want to lose a little weight, not a lot, but the fat % I'd really like to change. ... anyway, I'd like to lose fat but not muscle.

Then do more strength work and check the bathroom scale daily. It's not rocket science. As we age, our ratio of muscle to fat tends to worsen in favor of fat. Therefore, even if your bodyweight does not change, you will gradually have more fat and less muscle as you age, making you weaker and flabbier, even at the same bodyweight as when you were younger. Unless you do strength work. So do more strength work, such as weightlifting. Weightbearing exercise (like squats) is particularly good for your bones. You can look at my workouts to see what I do. It works. You may of course choose to do different strength exercises depending on your preferences, goals, time available, and personal health history. Up to you. Q.E.D. (Quite Easily Done). Just don't lose sight of the basics in a cloud of verbiage and rationalizations, which many people do. Dark Horse

thanks for the feedback. Lou... after you stopped counting calories, did you just keep the new habits?

Basically yes. I counted calories for a really long time, though, even after I was at a stable weight. Did I mention I'm a little OC? I started running after losing weight; I stopped counting calories but well after I lost the weight (lost weight starting 1/18/02, started running 5/15/05, last calorie count was 1/22/06 after 4 years ). By then my goal weight was fairly well established (duh). And of course the running helped the "calories out" part of the equation. As you may be able to see, I recorded all this data in a spreadsheet to watch my progress and provide motivation. To this date I keep my running log in a file called "weight tracking" and I take my weight every morning. It's a lot easier to make little adjustments after gaining a pound or two than to make major adjustments after gaining five or ten. MTA: Actually, I think PDR found some paper data which showed me starting at 165, so that's why the 25 lb. claim. Here's my data from 2002. Note how my calorie intake started low and got higher as my weight approached where I wanted to be. Also note how I kept adjusting my goal to something which seemed achievable.

Lou, exactly. There is a huge weight-loss industry only because millions of people refuse to recognize or accept or understand this simple fact. As you also point out, it becomes harder to lose weight as metabolism slows down, but the method remains the same. However, most people lack the self-discipline to eat less as their metabolism slows, and to compound the problem, they often tend to get physically lazier as they get older. The lack of self-discipline in eating is so pervasive, that people will assume anyone who is actually thin must not have to make any effort to be that way. I can't count the number of times people have commented to me, "Of course it's easy for you," or "I wish I had your metabolism." In fact my metabolism is just like anyone else's. I can easily gain 5 pounds in a weekend if I don't watch my weight like a hawk. My weight has gone up 10 pounds in the last two weeks, because I have been lax after my Army fitness test (and a bit depressed because I expected to do rather better than 12:50 for 2 miles). I will never forget a conversation I had once with a very obese woman. She was telling me earnestly that it was impossible for her lose weight because her thyroid was under-active or some other B.S. excuse. I told her, "If I lock you in a room and you are only allowed to eat what I give you, you will lose weight." She got very upset and attacked me with an angry irrational outburst, not omitting the standard accusation, "you couldn't possibly understand because it's easy for you." This annoyed but did not surprise me because many people are incapable of discussing their weight rationally. Dark Horse

I surprised you admit that metabolism does slow as people get older, and its not all just their pesky irrationality and laziness.

Mary, sorry to hear you are not feeling well. I hope your tummy troubles improve enough to be able to run some this afternoon. I'm with Aamos on lunges on the TM. I nearly fall over when I try them on the floor, let alone on a moving surface! Nono, sorry to hear about the knee trouble. I can empathize. I've been dealing with a knee problem for a year now and nothing seems to help very much, even taking time off. I may have to break down and go to the doctor, as much as I dislike the idea. Bill, whenever I run a tempo run I wonder how on earth I could possibly hold that pace for a half marathon. I guess there is something in the taper and race day adrenaline that does it. No Turkey Trot for me. I hope to take advantage of the day off to get in a 10 mile run before beginning my cooking marathon. dg, I think weight training is the key to improving your body fat ratio, particularly if you aren't looking to lose weight. I lift twice a week, but you could do more if you have time. Gradually increasing the weight you are lifting will help build muscle. Aamos, I did go to a chiropractor briefly for ART - not sure if that counts. I am not sure it did much good, though. It was for the piriformis thing that ultimately I think was cured via stretching and doing adductor / abductor exercises. Lou, you are way OC! I cannot believe that chart! I ran 8 miles today in really nice weather. It was about 50 and sunny, some wind but not too bad. My hip is feeling much better, but the knee continues achy. I think I managed to be under 8:00 miles the whole way, though, so that is good. Total time 1:02:15. Meg

Tramps, you sound too sane for a person about to run a marathon. What's the secret?

Amy, are you asking me for marathon advice? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Yeah sure, right after I call Yo-Yo Ma and give him a few tips about his cello playing. Actually, I’m laying especially low this week hoping this darn hamstring twinge I’ve been feeling doesn’t act up this weekend. I’ve started icing, Ibuprofen, and gentle stretches. It’s really not much right now but what will it do after 20 miles? We’ll see. Also, I got an e-mail from the race director about likely weather conditions, which I thought was awfully nice. 30s-40s with showers; could be worse. Sometimes I worry a little bit about my buddy, Lou. Geez, that’s a lot of data. Tracking calories is a lot of work. If I did it, I think I’d just work up an appetite. I lost about 20-25 pounds a few years back, too. I thought about writing a fitness book summing up my philosophy. It would be called Eat Less, Move More. Uh, actually, that’s the entire book right there..."eat less, move more"...that's all I've got.

That's funny. On "the swamp" (the 2000 forum), there is occasionally a discussion about running plans. It always ends up as (and I'm paraphrasing here): "Run a lot. Mostly easy. Some hard. " Ok, I think I've used up my posting quota for the day.

i've been focusing on smart/dumb training. maybe it's more dumb/smart. it's freebie day Lou. post all you want. (you're making me feel almost normal)(great chart!)(thanks!)