Pain is my friend
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ATY 24 141.445 2019 1st
Bear 100 22:08 2021
Jackpot 100 Feb 14:59 - 5th
Pulse endurance 48 hr 175.3 miles
Bonnevile Backyard ultra
Ute 100 Aug
24 hour loop race?
Question: can the rules be changed so the marathon’s fastest time would be worth 4 points, HM - 3 points, 10K -2 points, and 5K - 1 point?
Frequent Racer Group
PRs: 400m- 1:04.94 (2015) / 1M - 5:08 (2024) / 5K -18:23 (2017) / 5M - 31:14 (2022) / 10K - 39:29 (2018) / 10M -1:05:01 (2024) / HM - 1:27:34 (2023) / FM -3:15:08 (2023)Coming up: Bucks County Senior Games (6/8/24), Break Fast 5K (6/16/24)
Since we're talking about rule proposals...
We had some discussion in our team forum about the balance between % Goal and % Logging. With the current rules the different scoring categories are mostly just a facade and the only category that really matters is % Goal. If % Goal and % Logging were both 10 points it would make the game strategy more interesting by allowing multiple paths to victory.
We did a bunch of strategizing over the summer to try to go green in the playoffs, but with the current scoring raising your goal is basically always the least optimal choice since winning the % Goal is all that really matters and any increases just hurts you in that category.
My proposal is for the playoffs to consist of only the top 4 teams, more like typical sports leagues. This rewards teams for being productive and consistent over the course of the regular season. And makes the final weeks of the regular season more interesting, with the competition to finish in the top 4.
Dave
I totally agree with Dave. Or maybe 2 top teams get a bye, and teams 3-6 play in the first round so there will be 4 teams left after that
Totally agree with DavePNW and nolancaster.
I'd also like to propose "Survivor Challenge" rules as a playoff option. If the teams have a difference in competing team members by more than 2, the team with more active runners has the option to sit runners for that round si teamnumbers are equal. The same runners can't sit consecutive rounds and it's for all 3 weeks.
That would open a Pandora's Box of issues.
- what about points for fastest time at other distances - 1 mile, 50K, etc.?
- the faster runners can pick up race points almost every time they race, whereas many of the other runners only get a race point if they happen to be the only game participant running that distance that week.
- Does the 1 point for team with most race miles make sense? Should it be more than 1 point?
- The points for most individual miles and most running time tend to go predominantly to a small number of high-mileage runners (and occasional Ultra racers).
Nolancaster, your comments are noted. The strategy has certainly changed since the points for 'green' increased from 2 to 6. Previously playoff games would be won by the team that got the team points twice so often the third week was meaningless. This year has seen many instances of the team points going to one team and the green points to the other - the team that consistently gets the green points only needs to win the team points once out of the 3 weeks.
The regular season games are still won by the highest team % in almost all cases. It is conceivable for the other team to collect the green points plus 5 of the sundry points for other categories and win that way, but I don't recollect that having happened yet.
Personally I don't think the green points should change, but perhaps the sundry 1 point items need a revisit.
Started running at age 60.
AG 60-64 PR - 5K 25:45, 10K 53:28, HM 1:57:39, Marathon 4:32:09
AG 65-69 PR - 5K 26:11, HM 2:02:39, Marathon 5:04:47
Upcoming race: Four on the 4th 7/4/24 maybe.
So IR and goal drops hasn't come up yet. I don't have an answer, because this is the result of having a yearly goal that is evenly spread over 52 weeks. That said, if you miss time early in the year, but return to your orginal weekly goal, you shouldn't be able to lower your goal if you plan on staying at that mileage. For example, if you start with a goal of 2000/ 38 mpw, miss a chunk of time before June 30 but return to 38 mpw, if you change the goal to 1500 (28ish mpw) but stay at 38 mpw, that's 10 extra miles per week.
Quickadder, the results from your match up illustrates nolancaster's point. It's highly unusual that a team gets 100% green and over and loses to a team at 50% green (with 2 below goal). The main exception would be if a longer ultra was involved.
Point taken, Quickadder. This is my first year in the game so I had no idea green points used to be even lower. I just think it's an interesting concept and adds depth to the game, but at 6 points it only provides an extreme outside shot of really mattering. If you can win the % Goal each week nothing else really matters. So an entire team can meet their goal early, go 0% greeen, and it's still the most optimal way to win because the lower goals make it easier to beef up the mileage percentage.
I love all the questions and talk here. One thing to consider is there are many things we can't change because that is how the game is written. As admin we will discuss things and get back to you.
One of the main goals of the game is to have fun and work as a team. We also want things to be fare. If we value one race above another by giving it more points, It will no longer be an equal playing field. To some of us a 5k is our only goal and will never run a marathon.
At one time we had 20 teams and the playoffs were played by the top 8 teams only. I don't know if we can change the playoffs. It might break the game.
I love all the questions and talk here. One thing to consider is there are many things we can't change because that is how the game is written. As admin we will discuss things and get back to you. One of the main goals of the game is to have fun and work as a team. We also want things to be fare. If we value one race above another by giving it more points, It will no longer be an equal playing field. To some of us a 5k is our only goal and will never run a marathon. At one time we had 20 teams and the playoffs were played by the top 8 teams only. I don't know if we can change the playoffs. It might break the game.
I know it's all volunteer & I suspect the admins take a lot of crap behind the scenes that we don't always know about. So thank you for what you do.
I think ultimately, and nolancaster alluded to this, is that while the teams start out balanced, they seem to have gotten out of balance. If the teams are evenly matched in terms of weekly goals, then yes, the 6 points can come into play during the playoffs and the teams that maybe did increase goals hold the advantage. But if the weekly goals seem out of whack, then that 6 point advange does nothing.
Waltons ThreadLord
I'm in favor of keeping all race distances worth one point. Increasing the green point from 3 to 6 more evenly spread the value of team members. Before, it was mostly the high mileage people who mattered. Giving more points to the marathon would shift back to giving more value to high mileage runners. I like it better when the value is more even. Just my two bits. I'm sure not everyone will agree, but that's my "vote."
5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:55 (11/23); 10k 49:24 (10/22); 10M 1:29:33 (2/24); Half 1:48:32 (10/22); Marathon 4:29:58 (11/23)Upcoming races: Scotch Plains 5k, 6/12; Firecracker 4-miler, 7/4
Thank you. Half Crazy K2.0. I totally agree that part way through the year teams can get out of wack. When the game is set up it is only looking at on metric. Miles. We all pledge how many miles we think we will run, hope we will run or plan to run. No one plans to get injured or sick. On January first the teams are only equal in the number of miles they each pledge. I have found over the years playing the game that things change many times during the year. So many variables. I have been on teams winning all year and them fall apart part way through. Or the opposite. We do allow a onetime goal change halfway through the year. The end of June.
I know it's all volunteer & I suspect the admins take a lot of crap behind the scenes that we don't always know about. So thank you for what you do. I think ultimately, and nolancaster alluded to this, is that while the teams start out balanced, they seem to have gotten out of balance. If the teams are evenly matched in terms of weekly goals, then yes, the 6 points can come into play during the playoffs and the teams that maybe did increase goals hold the advantage. But if the weekly goals seem out of whack, then that 6 point advange does nothing.
On the other hand this might illustrate the strength of teamwork. The 2 runners that were below goal had informed the rest of the team early of the situation and other runners stepped up and covered.
Because our team had one runner that hit their yearly goal early, we could not prevent the opposition from getting the 6 points for green, so we decided we needed to run as many miles as possible each week in the playoffs. Look back to our results in the quarterfinal to see how consistent we have been.
On the other hand this might illustrate the strength of teamwork. The 2 runners that were below goal had informed the rest of the team early of the situation and other runners stepped up and covered. Because our team had one runner that hit their yearly goal early, we could not prevent the opposition from getting the 6 points for green, so we decided we needed to run as many miles as possible each week in the playoffs. Look back to our results in the quarterfinal to see how consistent we have been.
I thought I had included this in an earlier post. For the remaining 4 teams, if you average total mileage over the active runners, there is quite a difference.
Pace Oddities 29.66
Fourgetaboutit 26.35
Give Em Gel 33.02
The Gogos 25.51
To show this another way, I used 150%. Give Em Gel needs each active member to run an additional 16.51 miles for 150%, The Gogos would need 12.75 for the same. It's a little more even, although still more than a 10% difference between Pace Oddities and Fourgetaboutit.
At the start of the year, this is balanced and each team would have the same average. This is not.