That was really a lead in question. I am doing a 24 hour event this next weekend where I will have access to food, gels, water, s!caps, etc every 1.9 miles. I was getting ready to order some more s caps and Running Warehouse combines the electrolyte drinks with the caps on their page. If I will have food (for calories), gels (for calories) and s caps (for electrolytes) every 2 miles, do I really need to order drinks like HEED or Clif Hydration?
I know lots of people who use only water and s caps or endurolytes for long events. HEED works very well for me, but I always keep endurolytes with me. Sometimes the HEED may be too watered down at aid stations.
LB2
Refurbished Hip
No. I've never drank HEED or anything similar during ultras. Just water, food, gels, and the occasional S! cap to supplement. Do what you've done in training.
Running is dumb.
Occasional Runner
No. In fact, it can be dangerous using the pills and an electrolyte drink. I use Hammer Endurolyte Fizz tabs in my bladder and they're essentially the exact some product as the pills. I choose to use the Fizz tabs because I can have trouble with gagging on pills late in a race.
Tim
I ran a 24hr in May where the temperature was cool, and I alternated Tailwind and water. Our loop was 1.55 miles, so I just switched out handhelds. I had one long stretch where I just didn't want the taste of the Tailwind, and I took s-caps. Agree with Lace, don't take electrolyte drink and caps at same time, but you can switch between the two if it's been a while.
I tend to eat sweets at AS's for calories and not salty.
Good luck.
“Paralysis-to-50k” training plan is underway!
Faster Than Your Couch!
Run for fun.
This is all really good to know. I sweat out a lot of salt so I know I need to be more conscious of my electrolyte replacement/hydration issues but didn't really think anything about why not to combine the two.
I've been using Tailwind for a few months now and that is all the electrolytes I have needed. I used to use S!CAPS, but I noticed they tended to make me drink about twice as much, as compared to when I just drank water.
I would just stick with what you have been using during your training.
A reason to keep hydration, electrolytes, and fuel separate is to be able to adjust according to your needs on race day - all through the day and night. People's needs may change from heat of day to cool of night. Your fitness, prior diet, and adaptations to weather can affect what's needed.
Agree with the others that you've got your bases covered with your food, gels, and S caps, esp. if that's what you've been training with.
I'm a low sweater and can keep things reasonably balanced with salty foods, margarita flavored shot bloks, etc maybe using one S cap every 5-10 hours on a cool day using clip2 for drink.
Have a good race.
Are you making your famous cookies with Tailwind IN them??
I've been using Tailwind for a few months now and that is all the electrolytes I have needed. I used to use S!CAPS, but I noticed they tended to make me drink about twice as much, as compared to when I just drank water. I would just stick with what you have been using during your training.
Oh man, I need to make some of Eric's famous cookies. I ate way too many of those last year!
As people have said, electrolyte drinks are not necessary.
I would say that mixing can be bad, as lace pointed out, but sometimes it can be good if they are the same product.
For example, let's say you use Endurolyte Fizz, and it gets hot, you are sweating more in between aid stations. In that case popping en Endurolyte pill makes good sense. I use Enervit G power and GT tabs in the same way.
I have done a few 24's ~ Some really good results, some not so good. I do not use sports drinks as you defined them
I do use a 50/50 Endurox R4 / Hammer Perpetuem mix ... I try and take @ 250 calories of this per hour. I use S-caps, I use gels ... I have been leaning toward VFuel and Hammer Gel lately. I also mix in a variety of real food depending of how it is going. PB&J, Ham and Cheese Sandwhich, Bananas, Soup, Potatoes, noodles could all be or not be used.
I shoot for 500 calories per hour with a minimum load of 300. Most people shoot for 200-300.
When I am desperate, I will also turn toward Mt Dew and Coke.
If I go slow enough that you can eat regularly, it goes decent. When I push pace early, my stomach turns on me, but I will still force at least 300 calories per hour down the hatch.
I am fuller bodied than Dopplebock
To adjust hydration ~ I can make a 10 ounce of water up to a 20 ounce of water bottle of my Enduxox / Hammer powder drink.
Although I have an extreme sweat rate, So it the temps are above 49F, I will be fighting dehydration ... So this leads me to try and drink 30+ ounces of liquid and hour. Drinking that much liquid can strip electrolytes, so I tend to take more of those than the average runner.
To assess this more in a scientific way, there are a few studies out which have tracked the total food intake of ultramarathon runners in 100k- to 100-mile events, in moderate (60-70 degrees) and hot (90-100 degrees during the day) weather. They suggest that runners with a sodium intake of 500 to 600 mg/hour on average have best chances of finishing, among many other factors. As the weather was hot during the day, and cooler in the night, my guess is that the sodium intake was probably closer to 800 mg/hour during the day, and around 400-500 mg/hour at night. Often, 1000 mg/hour are recommended, and it seems this is too high.
It was also found that the electrolyte content in the blood plasma did not correlate with salt intake.
Other studies have investigated sweating, and found that the salt content in sweat can vary hugely between different runners (by more than a factor of 4, some studies found 8), and that the sweat tends to contain less salt if the runner is better adjusted to heat.
Now let's look at the foods and supplements.
In contrast to their name, Endurolytes do not contain a lot of sodium or potassium, or other electrolytes. They do contain a lot of vitamin B6, which plays a role in neurological functions, and a lot of Manganese, which is important in fat and carbohydrate metabolism, and in blood sugar regulation. However, it is not scientifically supported that doses several times the daily required amounts do much in terms of promoting performance.
In my personal experience, the Endurolytes help with cramping, and I assign this to their vitamin B6-content. That's just my opinion, however, I am not sure if this is correct.
HEED does not contain enough sodium to cover the average need per hour, nor do Gatorade, Coke, Mountain Dew, etc., you'd have to drink amounts of 5-16 cups per hour of these to reach the desired amount of around 600 mg/hour.
Same holds for Perpetuem and Sustained Energy, you'd have to drink 2 "serving sizes" (around 550 calories) per hour to get your necessary sodium. Gels contain very little sodium, most brands at least (there are 1 or 2 brands which contain significant amounts, where 2-3 gels/hour would keep you covered, but I'm not sure which brands these are).
S!-caps are sodium supplements and can help with getting enough salt into your system for long runs.
Tailwind contains enough sodium to cover your needs, but I'm not sure about potassium, and it contains simple sugars, which might hurt teeth, or cause GI issues in some people (same as Gatorade).
Too much table salt can cause GI issues and vomiting.
It is much safer to consume too much sodium than significantly too little, combined with drinking significantly too much.
Studies suggest that, if water intake is limited, hyponatraemia is induced by metabolic and endocrine dysfunctions, not by eating too little sodium. However, you can certainly induce hyponatraemia if you drink huge amounts of water within a short time.
HEED does not contain simple sugars, but Maltodextrin, which is a complex sugar, so it might be more tooth-friendly (although the sugar is probably digested in the mouth into simple sugars within 10 minutes), and it is optimized for maximum absorption. Maximum absorption does not help you, however, if you eat anything else, as this messes up the osmolality in your stomach. You might just as well drink plain water, or any other drink.
There are many strategies about how to meet your caloric and electrolyte needs during a long run, and to manage your GI issues and your personal likes and dislikes. That's why we all need to try things out, and why sometimes something works well, and does not work well at other times. There is a point to combining different solid foods, sports foods, drinks and supplements in order to adjust salt intake according to needs.
I find that not only sodium, but also potassium, magnesium and calcium are important, and that's why I think solid food can be very important if you can stomach it. I use grapes for glucose, bananas, melons and potatoes for potassium, table salt for dipping (I'm careful not to take too much, as this causes stomach pain with me), apples for pectin, which acts as a buffer (neutralizes the effects of salt and citric acid), oranges for citric acid (which can enhance performance), etc. For magnesium, I take a supplement pill (25% RDA) in the morning before a race, and with calcium, I rely on my bones (it won't hurt them if they don't get the calcium they need, but have to supply calcium to my blood for just a day).
There are lots of options, and I think everybody responds differently to different foods (at different times).
These are just bits and pieces that I can memorize, and it would take quite an effort to find the studies all for reference.