^ I touched on the lower drop, but you're correct- the lower stack height definitely contributes as well

I spoke w/ La Sportiva yesterday as I'm completely unfamiliar w/ their line-up and they have several shoes in the "mountain" running category- after speaking to the rep he suggested two shoes- their new Anakonda and their Helios- they both are pretty ruggedly designed, both have a 4mm drop- the difference is the Anakonda is a little more svelte w/ less stack height, the Helios w/ more stack height offers more cushion

So I have a lot of shoes to try on

thanks for the report- sounds very encouraging

it sounds like several of these shoes can get the job done, fit is probably going to be the overriding factor

My Xoduses got introduced to thawed, but reasonably dry, dirt today, after having bought them back in November. Long winter. Part of run was still in slush, rotten ice, and meltwater (ice cleats not needed, finally), but south side was better - even heavenly to be on dirt. There was some gravel also, but most rocks are still buried. My Sat race on rocky terrain was cancelled because of the deep standing water from snowmelt still, not to mention the snow that hasn't melted.

With that introduction, I'd like to say I've been loving my Xodus a lot. Toe box is wide enough to handle winter socks. They absorb shock without being squishy. Part of that is the rock plate, part is the extra material in the forefoot (3mm more than Adrenaline ASR), and part is probably the lugs (probably squish a bit when landing). Toebox is only a smidgen narrower than Adrenaline ASR's wide (women's D). Heel stays reasonably locked down. Depending on models, I usually wear a 9 or 9.5. These were 9.5.

The one thing I've been a little concerned about and won't know for another month or so after they open up our trails after breakup, is that the lugs extend out from the edges. For narrow single track, I'm wondering if foot-eye coordination might need to be adjusted so as not to snag those lugs on the side of the trail.

I did pick up a 2nd pair a couple months ago to start working them into rotation. When I can test them on non-snow terrain more, I'll probably pick up a 3rd pair - before they change them.

For comparison, the ASRs that I got about the same time haven' been used much - fit is decent, but really lack forefoot protection. These are considered stability because of pronation devices, but don't feel as supportive as the Xodus which are neutral, but built more firmly. Just about right for me where some of my other shoes with a decent ride were just not feeling supportive enough for multiple-hour runs. Although this still needs to be tested on something besides snow.

I haven't used Cascadias recently, but the orignals fit well and provided decent rock protection (at least for what i'd been on at that time). Every model since then has been narrow. Just looked at ShoeFitr with Cascadia 8 vs Xodus 3, and it thinks I take a 9 in Cascadia vs 9.5 in Xodus, so maybe they've changed the widths on it. (just checked Cascadia 7, and it suggests a 9.5 in that, so they have changed)

For comparison, the forefoot stack heights are 22, 19, and 17 for the Xodus, ASR, and Cascadia, respectively. Xodus has 4mm drop while the others are closer to 10mm or whatever. It's lower to the ground, but more protection in the forefoot, which is nice for those who are mid to forefoot strikers.

Oh, and I have been getting used to the Hoka Stinson Evos but on paved bike paths and a little snow. I'm not confident of that height on uneven snow on trails yet. It's got a big toebox, but the whole shoe is wider and hard to latch foot down in heel, even with regular laces and the heel lock. I took an 8.5 in these. The speed laces on an 8 are so short, I couldn't get my foot into the shoe to see if it might work, so settled for 8.5 in the store. That said, those fat soles are likely to just roll over any gravel in the way.   My  original intention was to use them on gravel roads (with lots of pointy gravel chunks). The race where I was considering wearing them isn't until mid Sept, so lots of time. But right now, the Xodus is becoming my go-to shoe.

short update- tried several shoes thus far- tried Cascadias in 9.5 and size 10, the 9.5 were too cramped in the toes, the 10's had decent toe room, but even tied w/ loops the heel was slipping; tried Exodus's in 9.5 and 10- exact same thing, 10's felt good, but too loose in the heel- they did feel better than the Cascadias w/ the lower drop however- the outsole is very aggressive and beefy (made by Vibrahm)- they had me try on some Peregrines- these definitely don't work for me- the toe box is very tapered

tried Pearl Izumi N1's they felt very good, toe box room was great, felt snug in the heel/mid-foot- low stack height felt good- very similar to the PureGrits, very breathable- outsoles not very aggressive, but maybe aggressive enough- low drop as well

they had the new Lone Peaks (1.5)- these felt very good as well- the shape of the toe box is exactly what my toes looks like- a box

I'm hoping to find some La Sportivas to try this afternoon, no one carries Inov-8 in MIssoula, but there is a place in Bozeman on the way back that I might get to try a pair there

they had the new Lone Peaks (1.5)- these felt very good as well- the shape of the toe box is exactly what my toes looks like- a box

I like the Lone Peaks a lot , really roomy aren't they ? My only issue is the 0 drop , you wouldn't think going from the Xodus  with a 4mm drop would be a big deal but I'm still feeling it on hills . I'm going to take them on a 12 mile run Sunday that does have rocks to see how they go .

went to REI and the Trailhead- neither had the Helios or Anakonda, REI had Wildcats and the size 10 fit well- roomy toe box, snug in the heel- very beefy shoe, rugged outsole- it could possible work, but it's a 12mm drop and I think I'd like to stick w/ something less

 

^^ hopefully I can try out some Inov-8's on my way back home

 

^ that was my biggest concern w/ the Altras-  the 0 drop, but yes they were very roomy in the toe box

Running warehouse has Helios and Anakondas (with a generous return policy). I ran my first 50 miler in the Helios and they were great. I have not tried the Anakonda but have the X-Country (very silimar sole/drop) and they are more of a mud shoe for me, and I don;t like them for more than 15 miles on a hard pack trail.

As for the beefy Sportiva options, the Ultra Raptor is 7-8mm drop, and not as heavy as the Wildcat, I believe. Helios and Anakonda are 4-5 mm drop and light (my Helios are about 8.5 ounces).

unfortunately I didn't get to stop in Bozeman to try a pair on, but ordered a pair of Helios's from REI w/ their sale

got them today- felt great in the heel and mid-foot, too tight in the toe box

they felt really good underfoot, but I know I would have problems w/ the toe box- so back they go

have a pair of N1's on the way

don't know if you can tell from the pic, but side by side I can see the PureGrits are roomier in the toe box