Pace Prophet
Here in Durango, the city-owned parks, including the trail systems where I run, have leash laws (except for one large designated dog park). However, the dogs I see are almost never on leads on the 'natural surface' trails (this includes two trail systems which are heavily used by mountain bikes as well as runners and hikers, and a third which is sort of a 'commuting route' between downtown and the college campus, with fewer bikes but more foot traffic.
I think this is probably largely because people are unaware of the leash laws, which are posted at trailheads but tend to get lost in all the small print about park regulations. But after having a couple of really scary unpleasant encounters with misbehaving dogs in just the last week, and numerous encounters with dogs who are probably 'behaving' by their owners' standards but not by mine (for example, running right at me, or sticking their nose in my legs or otherwise being 'friendly' - I don't mind dogs who keep close to their owners or who run past and ignore me) I'd like to let people know that they are required to have their dogs on leads on these trails.
Is there any way to do this politely, without pissing people off or coming off as an insufferable prig? If you were running or walking with your dog running loose in a mountain park, how would you react if another runner told you that there is a leash law on that trail (assuming, of course, that it's true)?
(I have already contacted the Parks and Rec people and asked for more prominent notices at trailheads. They claim there's enforcement, but I've never seen any. I suspect what enforcement there is is concentrated on the paved rec trail, which is very heavily used and has a lot of people walking dogs, but few runners with dogs. The leash law is pretty well obeyed there though not 100%.)
sugnim
I run with my dog, and she is usually off leash. That said, she knows to keep at my pace and run at my right hand side. She is completely disinterested in strangers. My last dog had to be on a leash or he would have jumped on everyone, chased anything that moved, and generally behaved like a wild animal. Every dog is a little different.
When I pass people who have ill-behaved dogs that are unleashed, I am not very polite. I have even told a few people that if they didn't call their dog off, I would kick it. That is mainly reserved for aggressive dogs, not just annoying ones. Otherwise, I just tell their dogs "NO!" in a very stern and loud voice. Almost all dogs know the word no, and most will scoot away quickly if you say "no."
I would be very surprised if most people who own dogs in your town do not know the leash rules. We have the same laws here in my city, and in fact at most trail heads and park entrances, there is not only a sign reminding people about leash laws, but there are also several decent-quality leashes that people can borrow for free to walk their dogs just hanging on hooks to use & return. Many people still disregard the laws and do not have any control over their animals.
As a dog owner, I would be embarrassed if someone said something to me about my dog, and I would apologize, and try to correct her behavior. One thing to keep in mind is that people are very emotional when it comes to their pets and they may react in a very defensive, even angry way if you say something, even if you are very polite. It would be a great burden to try to educate everyone about the importance of leash laws, so you might keep that in mind too as it could get very frustrating. My best advice to you is to deal with the dog rather than the owner. Tell the dog "NO!" and put up your palm in a stop-type manner. You can usually keep doing this while you run, so you won't have to stop or slow down. Most dogs will listen and will back away, and if you are very lucky, they might even remember this & become trained not to jump at strangers who run by.
ilanarama-- First off thank you from awhile back when you posted a link to your pics of Buckskin Gulch. I did get in there and it was incredible. Since I was in your photo album I scrolled around and my compliments on your beautiful photos in some fantastic areas.
Some people just have no clue and others are just arrogant pigs. While I don't run my dogs all that much in public areas they have been trained to heel perfectly and I'll still use a leash and choke collar. I walk/run my dogs like that and I expect others to do the same. LOL!
I have blasted dogs with my foot right in front of moronic owners, yelled at people while biking that have those ridiculous retractable leashes, and I'm sure the day will come where I'll have to drop some mouth breather walking their stinking little Fluffy who will want to protect it's honor.
I know you probably don't really want an altercation but don't worry about being polite--their not, and ignorance of any law is not an escape or remedy.
My running bud used to like to take his dog running with us, a big German Shepard that to some was very intimidating. I had to coach and train my bud on proper behavior and that not everyone out there was happy to see his dog. Finally I had to refuse to run with him as long as his dog was along.
So I have no real solution but venting is good.
My question--Why do people bag the dog crap and then leave the bag sitting there? What is the thought pattern with that? That happens all over around here and I just don't get it. Right now across the street from me next to my neighbors driveway is a nice little bag tied shut and it's been there since last night. Who's gonna pick that up? Why not just leave it where it dropped so it can at least decompose if you're not gonna take it along?
Refurbished Hip
If my dog gets off her leash, she's heading for either Mexico or Canada and not looking back. So she's always on a leash when we run. I don't have the option to be the dog owner who lets their animal off leash.
However, I have run with dogs who are not mine off leash. For example, my BFF has two dogs who I watch whenever she and her husband are out of town -- one a pointer mix and the other a big ol' pit bull. I will let the pointer off leash to run trails with me. She actively avoids all other humans and dogs. We come across another trail user and she just ignores and moves on in whatever direction we're heading. The pitbull is friendly and good with recall, but I won't ever let him off leash. He's overly enthusiastic and would barrel at someone looking to be petted. (Not to mention the stigma associated with pit bulls.) I know we need leash laws for all the morons out there, but honestly, if I had a dog like my BFF's pointer, I probably wouldn't follow them either. And if I was out running with her and she was behaving and someone said something to me about leash laws, I might be a little annoyed because a) she's ignoring you and b) she's ignoring you and is 10 feet away from you trying to catch a squirrel. BUT, if I did have a dog who came up to you and followed you and licked your hand and you said something to me about it, I'd probably apologize and feel like an ass. (But I'm not putting myself in that situation either, so it's all hypothetical.)
For the most part I don't mind people with well behaved dogs off leash. But it's either an all or nothing enforcement kinda thing. You can't tell one group of people that their dogs can be off leash while others can't.
Really, I don't have a solution to your problem, Ilana, I'm just rambling
Running is dumb.
But everyone thinks the rules apply to everyone else but them. Pick your user group.
And some peeps just don't know how to act around dogs too. I have had my dogs running loose on portage trails in Ontario and encountered people who were freaking out yet my dogs showed no interest in them whatsoever. Also in the autumn woods in Northern Wi. The people are sometimes in a huff but I'm totally legal and just politely laugh at them. When my dogs are off leash they have a single focus and don't care about any other people or dogs.
I take my dogs cross-country skiing all the time and they are running off lead. The more energetic one will wear an E-collar but my dogs ignore the other skiers and most people actually want to interact with them. The only problem is when Otto decides to get right in front of me on a steep downhill. Grrr.
Anyway the some of us that are responsible are watching our dogs constantly. We'll be on our dogs in a heartbeat if there is a problem and would be apologetic if necessary.
Pepper spray is a good option though--for dog or dog owner.
Thanks, people.
sugnim: the loaner leashes sound awesome! What a cool idea (and reminder). 'One thing to keep in mind is that people are very emotional when it comes to their pets and they may react in a very defensive, even angry way if you say something, even if you are very polite' - yeah, ain't that the truth. Which is why I'm trying to figure out how I can transmit this message without triggering this response! I will say that most people are super-embarrassed when their dog overtly misbehaves (like when a woman's dog turned around and chased me, barking - she was as upset as I was!). I do tend to turn toward the dogs and yell, NO, but - I want the owner to understand that this would not have happened if the dog was, as is legally required, on a leash!
NH - SO GLAD you got to see Buckskin Gulch! It's an amazing spot! Thanks for trying to be the 'good dog ambassador' to your friends - I think it's probably most effective coming from another dog owner, so the fact that you never got through to your one friend is disheartening.
Mandy - yeah, a dog that ignores me is a good dog, and I generally won't say anything in that case (even though DAMN IT THERE IS A LEASH LAW and selective enforcement is impossible). But too many dogs just want to be friendly and petted and social, and there is a big expectation here, I think, that everyone loves dogs and therefore won't mind. And so I feel slightly guilty being sharp to dogs (and owners) like that (as opposed to in cases where a dog is genuinely being aggressive) but I don't want to pet your dog! I want to keep running!
Will run for scenery.
I went on a group run in a designated wilderness area and 3 runners who knew the law decided that it did not apply to them.
Although I find it annoying that people are knowingly disturbing wildlife in an area where people go just to see an undisturbed wilderness I let it slide.
But one dog was a serious safety hazard. In the first half mile of steep extremely rocky trail he (black dog, in the dark) darted in front of me and clipped my leg. Several times. I started out shouting No! And then swatting, and then trying to hit hard. Owner was in total denial. I was seriously ready to whip out the trekking poles and tell the owner that I was gonna go for blood. And I'm a pretty mild-mannered guy; I had never hit a dog before.
Anyway this case defused itself. I'm so slow the whole group dropped me after the first mile! I would have liked some company, but I was very glad to be rid of that dog. I spent the day wondering if I'd catch up to find one of the runners w/ a broken hip.
Stupid feet!
Stupid elbow!
Faster Than Your Couch!
Coming across as polite while trying to make your point within two seconds, rushing by and panting heavily, is difficult.
In my experience, this always evolves into a more or less lengthy and emotional discussion with dog owners who feel their feathers ruffled for "no reason". Some dog owners aren't aware of their dog being perceived as intimidating or annoying, while others know this very well and just think they have the right to let their dog run free wherever they want to. So either you are prepared for getting some not so nice responses from some owners, or you don't say anything at all.
Maybe phrasing it into a question, whether the owner is aware of the leash laws? Or just something like "Can you please take your dog on a leash?"
When I used to hike with my dog, I let her run without a leash when I did not expect anyone else to be around, but of course, there was always that one random person who was out in the woods as well. I felt better when people just would ask me shortly to take my dog on a leash (which I would do, and which I always tried to do even before someone asked me to), than if they were trying to tell me what to do ("Take that dog on a leash, and better quick!"), or if they made nasty comments (which happens a lot in Germany, but then, most of the dogs there are not as well-behaved as the dogs here).
Run for fun.
I run with dogs. Unleashed. I do carry a leash just in case and mine behave very well. We encounter mountain bikers, horse back riders, hikers, and other runners from time to time. I obviously always leash them up when we encounter the horsey people, others it depends. My dog will heel on command and just cruise on by.
I know I am not the sort of person you are complaining about but it always ticks me off when people think leash laws should be strictly enforced on remote trails. Running a dog on certain types of trails on leash can be a bit crazy and dangerous. Crowded/busy trails are another matter. But a trail where you may have only a few encounters in a 1-2 hour run (or none) it's completely ridiculous.
I'm glad I don't live in an area where this is a huge issue. Personally I think humans are overrated and dogs are cool.
In dog beers, I've only had one.
As a runner who run my dog sans leash...I am aware of the rules but do it anyway. I run with my dog at times when it is unlikely anyone else is out there because she does not stay with me and barks at people. It is a county managed trail and not used much. The few people I've met on the trail don't get upset openly. I understand I'm the bad guy here....and apologise profusely when she barks. On state trails with heavy volume I leave her home. She is afraid of people and is terrified to be on a leash where she cannot run away at will.
January , 2022 Yankee Springs Winter Challenge 25k
I get my mace in my hand as soon as I see the unleashed dog. It's amazing how quickly owners will scramble to get their dog under control when you've got mace in your hand. I have been bitten so many times I won't run trails without it anymore.
Another thing? I tell people I just saw 5 coyote up around the corner. It's sometimes even true.
moonlight, you're not the bad guy, I understand your point. If I'm on a remote trail and (literally) run into an unleashed dog, I just keep running on slowly, not staring at the dog, and ignoring him if he is barking. Usually works well, and the owner apologizes.
I have been nipped/lightly bitten in my hand twice by a huge Rottweiler, though, and his owner is just a weirdo who would never take his puppy on a leash. When I see them (which happens once every few months), I slow down to a walk and keep my hands close to my body. I find it annoying, but the owner probably won't change even if I came along with a cop or a ranger. Thus is life.
I let my dog run unleashed on remote trails, too, because I wanted to let my dog have some exercise. She never barked at anyone, or charged anyone, though, but she was big and black, and people would get intimidated by her.
Now when I run, I find it quite funny if a dog wants to come along with me and runs with me for a bit, and the owner is yelling behind us, desperately trying to get control over the (unleashed) dog.
I was actually just attacked by a dog...not while I was running...just walking to my garden. It was scary to know in that moment as it ran to me that there was nothing I could do to stop him. He had attacked my dog a few minutes before. I sympathize with anyone who feels such a threat.
Yeah, these are not remote trails but have trailheads in town and are very heavily used, and I don't think it's appropriate for people to let their dogs run free there, especially since there IS a legal alternative park, equally convenient and nearly as big, if they absolutely have to have their dogs off-leash.
I run with my dog at times when it is unlikely anyone else is out there because she does not stay with me and barks at people.
I realize you're trying to minimize encounters, and I appreciate that, but man, I would be terrified (and furious) if I was running along some remote-ish place and a dog with no owner visible came running toward me, barking.
I have made some suggestions to the trails association and to the city responsible for signage. I know there's little I can personally do, and I know that people are just going to take it the wrong way, but I do appreciate the suggestions of framing it as "Do you know there's a leash law on this trail system?" - that makes sense and is less confrontational. I do think that most people are fairly conscientious about training their dogs to behave well in public - it's just that there are SO MANY DOGS here (sometimes it seems like a kind of a Colorado requirement!) that even a small percentage of a lot equals a significant number.
As a runner who run my dog sans leash...I am aware of the rules but do it anyway. I run with my dog at times when it is unlikely anyone else is out there because she does not stay with me and barks at people.
I'd probably mace your dog.