Forums >General Running>Bounding Stride
I've noticed that a bounding stride is really common among teen runners; boys in particular.
It's common in at least one old fart that I know.
thanks for all the help guys, i guess ill try shortening my stride at practice tomorrow
Not so fast... Running fast involves longer strides and faster strides. So if you already are blessed with long strides, why try to shorten them? When a runner seems to "bound", most people would react to it by trying to shortern the strides; the actual fact is, you should try to improve your stride frequency.
Even if your stride length is very short, if you try to slow down your stride frequency, you'll start to bounce up and down. Before you quickly conclude that you are over-striding, you should check your stride frequency. Most of good runners would take somewhere around 170~190 steps per minute. If your stride frequency is less than 160, your bouncing action is most likely caused by lack of leg turn-over. You should work on quick turn-over by (1) doing some quick step drills, high-knee, butt-kick, quick step drills (like some football practice), etc.
Then, to make sure, you may want to measure your stride length as well. If, say, your strides are something like over 6-foot when you're only 5'7", then, yeah, you're most likely over-striding. But if you're over 6-foot tall and your stride length is only 5 foot, then I wouldn't necessarily call it "over-striding" (unless your torso is very very long and your legs are very very short).
Don't jump to conclusing that your strides are too long. Do your homework first and get some facts straight before you start doing anything specific particularly seemingly hurting your strength which could be to your advantage in the future.
Why is it sideways?
rectumdamnnearkilledem
pink...pink, what's wrong with pink?!
Getting the wind knocked out of you is the only way to
remind your lungs how much they like the taste of air.
~ Sarah Kay
Most of good runners would take somewhere around 170~190 steps per minute. If your stride frequency is less than 160, your bouncing action is most likely caused by lack of leg turn-over. You should work on quick turn-over by (1) doing some quick step drills, high-knee, butt-kick, quick step drills (like some football practice), etc.
Nobby --- is it ever great to see you posting again --- I read your post over and over again because there is usually so much good information in them all...
I was going to ask about strides but it seems appropriate here ---- I know nothing about stride count....so when you say most good runners are around 170 ~ 190 steps per minute --- I am assuming you literally get a good pace going -- start your watch and count each step (LEFT then RIGHT) for a minute and see what the number would be.....
IF you are below the above level, you need to speed up your turn over --- then if you can achive this number of steps, then work to lengthen the stride - cause you'll go faster??
Is my understanding correct????
Champions are made when no one is watching
John:
Thanks for your kind welcome-back! I had a very busy summer including 2 trips to Flagstaff as well as a week in Berlin for WC and, back home for 1 day and turn around and went to Japan for a week as well for Hokkaido marathon. Just bearly getting over jet-lag now...
I guess I didn't quite finish my post after (1) do some drills... (2) would be doing some down hill striding. I was in Berlin with Yoko Shibui who actually ended up DNS due to a stress fracture. I had quite a bit of time discussing with her coach, Shigeharu Watanabe. He came to our Tokyo clinic (we had one at Hokkaido marathon and then the following Monday had another clinic in Tokyo). While in Berlin, he asked me to make a dupe of a training DVD called "The Right Track" by Dick Quax. Yoko won Japan's national championships 10000m last year and made the Beijing Olympic team. It was a thrilling last straight sprint and she won it over Yukiko Akaba, a track specialist at the time, by an inch. It was a tight finish yet Yoko knew she won it. She was in total control and full of confidence. Nabe (Watanabe) claims hill training was responsible; not uphill but downhill. We talked about the Japanese distance running scene in general and we realized that most good runners from Japan can't really sprint. Take multiple national record holder, Kayoko Fukushi, for example. She runs well but she can't kick. She went to Ethiopia and trained with their top female runners and came back, doing lots of intervals; thinking that's speed training. The actual fact is; she slowed down doing that kind of training. We figured what they should be doing is real "speed" workouts. Running hard 400 or even 800, like Yasso 800, won't necessarily help you with it. You need to stimulate your nervous system to move your legs quick. One of the best ways to do it is downhill striding. Greg McMillan filmed Yoko doing repeats 400 uphill AND 400 downhill while Flagstaff. It was done with a very specific purpose.
If the OP wants to just shorten his strides to eliminate bouncing action, that's fine--work on shortening his stride length. But his ultimate goal is to run faster; then why not work on capitalizing his strength (long strides) and wor on apparent (seemingly) weakness (lack of fast leg turn-over)?
By the way, yes, what you said about stride frequency is correct. I would recommend checking your stride frequency on treadmill because usually the clock is right in front of your face so you don't have to check your warch every 15 seconds ("is it a minute yet?"). I usually count 10 and fold one finger--I've tried to continue counting before and it wasn't pretty! ;o) I just did it when I was jogging nice and easily tonight; it was about 162 a minute. It take some work, at least for me, to get up beyond 170. A decent marathon runner would take about 180cm stride length and 180/min. strides. Some shorter/longer strides; some faster stride frequency (sometimes up to 210/min.!) but not much slower than, I'd say, 170. I think Jack Daniels had done some extensive study on stride length and stride frequency of elite runners. I thought, if I remember it correctly, he said something like running slower was actually due to shortening of stride length; not so much of decreasing stride frequency--that sort of makes me think that, if you have good stride length to begin with; don't waste it.
I totally agree that a long stride isn’t bad. I’ve read a lot of stuff saying that shorting your stride will make you faster. I tired shorting my stride a little but did not notice any improvement, so returned to my natural long stride. Has anyone ever noticed that cheetahs and greyhounds have long strides? Granted their mechanics are different than ours, but makes you wonder.
Thanks again Nobby ---- I'll give it a shot today during my lunch time run and see if I can get an accurate count...if not, then Ill hit my TM tomorrow or over the weekend and try it again......
BTW -- If you remember some time ago (4 or 5 months ago) you gave me some sound advice on training based on my projected 40 MPW. I have now achieved my 40 MPW and am adapting your suggestions and am feeling some good results....... Running a couple of HALF Marathons next month and after will put some focus on leg turnover and form (I don't think I am even getting 162 in a minute) -- My primary goal after OCT are to improve my 5K times..............some day I am going to be a good runner....
I've read the chapter in Daniels' multiple times on stride rate and length. Daniels has studied/observed runners at various distances, and these same runners running slow, medium, and fast. His observation is that for the elite runners, their stride rate varies very little whether they are running slow, medium or fast. What doest change is their stride length. Rate stays relatively constant, length increases to go faster.
Daniels' suggestion for counting your stride rate is quite simple. Count the number of steps for one leg for 20 seconds. Try to be around 30 steps for that one leg. That will get you 90 per leg per minute, or 180 for both.
Now, some will argue your stride rate "is what it is." That could be the case, and I certainly don't claimto to know enough of the science to state otherwise. However, the science behind the efficiency of a quicker stride is hard to dismiss. It's also suppose to lead to fewer injuries since you're likely to land more midfoot, and spend less time with ground contact.
OK Everyone --- I went for a 5 mile - lunch time run today -- tried to pretty much run a normal 5 miles but decided to count my strides to get an idea of my turn over ratio....(think sub consciously - I might have pushed it a little but not too much)..
I counted 30 Second....left foot strides.....then doubled it (to include the right foot)......then doubled it to make a turnover ratio per minute.........consistently - I got 45 left foot steps in 30 seconds....so 45 x 2 x 2 = 180 turnover ratio.
I counted this many times through out the run and my count of 45 was very consistent.....a couple of times while running on a slight downgrade, I would get 47 and once 48 (which would relate to up to 192 turn over). One time I counted 44. One time I counted for 1 minute and got 90 left foot strides which still turns out to be 180........
I expected it to be much lower----------
SO -- -here I am --- 5'6" -- 143 lbs ---- 57 years old --- averaging 40 MPW and a turnover at approx 180
What the heck does this mean to me now???? I don't understand the significance -- I'm not particularity fast--so I would like to know if this means something to me?
Seriously, it just means you have a stride rate that is considered pretty efficient/optimal, and now you don't have to worry about it.
Just curious, at what age did you start running?
I have run off and on since I was 25 (I had to pass an Army Fitness Test) and I couldn't pass the run...so started running 1 mile every day..........kind of kept running and never really stopped, and also never really got very good...........Ran a marathon when I was 34..........but mostly was starting running or stopping running and never really averaged more then 15/20 MPW..... Then about 1 1/2 years ago (last March) I started running again and got more serious about it.....so I have been an off and on runner for 30 years ---but recently getting more miles and strength.
Until a few months ago, I had only run 40 miles in a week twice (quite a few years ago - just before I got hurt).....
Im not very fast --- my 5K pr is only 25:47 (tho I think I can bet that time now on a decent course)