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What do you feel after a long run @ MP? (Read 537 times)

Julia1971


    I find Pfitz marathon pace runs to be very hard.  The middle part sounds about right as far as when it started to feel labored - maybe a little after the middle.  I'm not sure I've ever finished one feeling "strong" and usually feel pretty spent at the end.  I also find myself wondering how I'm going to run 26.2 miles at that pace but with the exception of my 80 degree marathon, managed every time.  But, my overall mileage was pretty high and my training was very consistent.

     

    FWIW, based on your 5K time, we're about the same speed.  I'm not sure about your endurance, though, since you said your training has been inconsistent, but your A and B goals are just about what my last two non-80 degree marathon times have been.  Edited to add: I didn't go Sub-3:20 - ran 3:23 instead - but I think on a kinder course on a better day, something right about there might have been possible.

     

    Good luck figuring it out.

    The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now. – Chinese Proverb


    Bad Ass

      I usually feel like Julia.  I feel strong but somewhat spent.  Never too labored or impossible.

       

      I would suggest a race or time trial to determine where you are at this moment of your training and consider your MP based on that.  Of course, the calculators assume you are similarly trained for every distance, so take that in mind when you select the current MP.

      Damaris, Marathon Maniac, Ultra Runner

      Blog

      "The most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire."

      mab411


      Proboscis Colossus

        The thing is that the way the plan works and ramps your miles up, I think that some of those first runs with only 5 or 6 miles at MP were actually tougher than some of these last runs with 8 or 9 miles at MP....[snip]...I feel that my fitness level has increased quite a bit with the extra volume that I've been running the last couple months.

         

        Glad to hear/see you say this.  I'm on Hansons, too, as I think we've discussed before, and I've noticed the MP and "strength" runs feeling easier, too, after really struggling early on.  It's to the point that every once in awhile I'm tempted to re-evaluate my marathon goal time, but that suggestion always seems to come from my left shoulder, accompanied by light jabs with what feels like a tiny pitchfork...

        "God guides us on our journey, but careful with those feet." - David Lee Roth, of all people

          Thank you all for sharing your experience and suggestions. This morning I had a 10K trial. I ran 6.09 miles for 42:14. I would keep on the final sprint but it was a red light, so I stopped. I used runworks.com calculator, it says my 10K is 43:08. I didn't manage to hold the 6:45 pace. It was quite tough to race alone. I was imagining you guys were cheering for me when I was pushing the middle 2 miles but I still lost quite a bit speed there. The first 3 miles was mainly uphill (about 200 ft gain) but I didn't feel the return was downhill. Overall, I am happy with the result.


          The pace as following: 
          mi Pace (min/mi) 
          1 6:51 
          2 7:01 
          3 6:53 
          4 7:13 
          5 7:13 
          6 6:34 
          7 5:31 

          MTA: elevation figure

          5k - 20:56 (09/12), 7k - 28:40 (11/12), 10k trial - 43:08  (03/13), 42:05 (05/13), FM - 3:09:28 (05/13), HM - 1:28:20 (05/14)


          I'm back!

            Great job. I'm not tough enough to try solo time trials. Nice visualization strategy.

             

            McMillan's calculator says 43:08 = 3:22, so I'd say you are right in there. (Side note, McMillan's site gets more annoying every time I use it. Now the projected marathon time is 202:22:13... uh, OK.)

              McMillan's calculator says 43:08 = 3:22

               

              3:22's pace is 7:43. I am thinking to run 7:40 as my MP on next Sunday's 16 mi with 14 MP. Is 3-5 seconds per mile can be very different feeling when running a marathon?

              5k - 20:56 (09/12), 7k - 28:40 (11/12), 10k trial - 43:08  (03/13), 42:05 (05/13), FM - 3:09:28 (05/13), HM - 1:28:20 (05/14)


              I'm back!

                Maybe, maybe not. But you won't know that until race day. I think your plan is good.

                 

                What I like to do when I run 3:20 -- I do that a lot, for training runs -- is run the first half at 7:40, and the second at 7:35. It makes the mental math pretty easy, and also works well as a general negative-split strategy. And in your case, it would also make sense as a slightly more conservative strategy that trying to hold 7:37 pace the whole way. If you feel good at the half, pick it up, if not, you can still get 3:2low.

                   

                  3:22's pace is 7:43. I am thinking to run 7:40 as my MP on next Sunday's 16 mi with 14 MP. Is 3-5 seconds per mile can be very different feeling when running a marathon?

                   

                  3-5 seconds/mile at marathon pace is entirely within the realm of random error (another way of saying "intangibles"), whereas the confidence from nailing the final MP workout before the first marathon has much greater meaning.  Better to err the slower side:  7:45 - 7:50.

                  2013 H1:  7 hours/week base.  Q3: Train for goal race.  Q4:  Goal Race.

                  Julia1971


                    If you're using a Garmin don't forget the course will measure long. So, be careful about confusing goal pace with your goal time. For example, I ran high 7:30s during my last marathon but since the distance was more than 26.2, it was actually high 7:40s.

                     

                    3:22's pace is 7:43. I am thinking to run 7:40 as my MP on next Sunday's 16 mi with 14 MP. Is 3-5 seconds per mile can be very different feeling when running a marathon?

                    The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now. – Chinese Proverb

                    Julia1971


                      Double post.

                      The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now. – Chinese Proverb

                      mab411


                      Proboscis Colossus

                        If you're using a Garmin don't forget the course will measure long. So, be careful about confusing goal pace with your goal time. For example, I ran high 7:30s during my last marathon but since the distance was more than 26.2, it was actually high 7:40s.

                         

                        So...I've actually been going faster on my MP runs than my Garmin has been telling me?

                        "God guides us on our journey, but careful with those feet." - David Lee Roth, of all people

                           

                          So...I've actually been going faster on my MP runs than my Garmin has been telling me?

                           

                          No, it's the opposite.

                           

                          Typically your GPS is going to measure long by up to 1% or so on a certified course.  You are going to miss some of the tangents, some is just error on the GPS, etc.  If you want to truly run a 7:40 avg pace for the chip time on your race, you will probably have to run closer to a 7:35 pace according to your GPS.

                           

                          If all else fails wear a watch and keep track of the mile markers! Wink

                          Age: 46 Weight: 208 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                          Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 44:51; 5K 21:27

                          Julia1971


                             

                            So...I've actually been going faster on my MP runs than my Garmin has been telling me?

                             

                            What NPaden said.

                             

                            If you use the auto lap, you'll find your Garmin beeping before you hit the mile markers on the course.  By the time your Garmin beeps 26 miles, you might still have a half mile or more to go rather than just 0.2mi.  So, you'll want to actually run faster than the average pace for a given goal marathon time if you have a time goal (for example, trying to BQ).

                             

                            If you turn off auto lap and hit the lap button manually during the race, then you'll notice the miles are reading something like 1.01 or 1.02.  So, each mile, you actually have to run a little faster than the pace you've been using as goal marathon pace to hit goal marathon time because you're running a little bit longer each mile (unless you've been setting your Garmin for 1.01 or 1.02 on training runs).

                             

                            I use the first method but mostly because the lap button on my 610 does weird things sometimes.

                            The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now. – Chinese Proverb

                              Thanks Julia for the reminding. Also I need to factor the drinking time. 3:20 is not important to me as my BQ is 3:10 which I don't think I am able to achieve this time.

                              5k - 20:56 (09/12), 7k - 28:40 (11/12), 10k trial - 43:08  (03/13), 42:05 (05/13), FM - 3:09:28 (05/13), HM - 1:28:20 (05/14)

                              mab411


                              Proboscis Colossus

                                Cool, thanks, guys.  As it happens, my goal pace is 8:01 this time around...easy number to just manually calculate, even while running at that speed.  I'd always noticed my Garmin was usually off from the mile markers, but I figured it was due to atmospheric conditions, buildings, etc..  And I guess it could be, but it sounds like it's just the nature of consumer-level GPSs to be a little off.

                                "God guides us on our journey, but careful with those feet." - David Lee Roth, of all people

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