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Purpose: Tune up races? (Read 997 times)

    Yeah, good thing because I am (or perhaps used to be) the wrong person to ask. I once raced a half all out 3 weeks before my goal marathon and got chewed out by Nobby because I totally nuked my marathon lead in. I haven't made that mistake twice.

     

    MTA: Other's can do this just fine. Running seems to be a constant process of learning to know thy self.

     It is a mistake to race all-out? 

    "If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus

      One thing I've learned from this thread is that their is no such thing as "Running 101".  What seems like a simple question has way more variables than is imaginable.

       

      What I would suggest (as I think as been mentioned already) is that you ask your coach.  Hopefully, you're to a point that you can trust what he/she says, go with that, and have confidence in your training and your fitness. 

       

      There is no single formula to what you're after.  Training is a constant series of adjustments and that's for everyone at every level.

      There was a point in my life when I ran. Now, I just run.

       

      Well, fuckers

      He still stands

       

      The Diary of a Once-ran.

         It is a mistake to race all-out? 

         

         

        MTA: Other's can do this just fine. Running seems to be a constant process of learning to know thy self.

        Runners run.


        Interval Junkie --Nobby

          One thing I've learned from this thread is that their is no such thing as "Running 101".  What seems like a simple question has way more variables than is imaginable.

           

          What I would suggest (as I think as been mentioned already) is that you ask your coach.

           

          My access to my coach is limited, as I need to take time off work to talk to him [I'll be doing this tomorrow morning].  Therefore, I like to bring these questions up on the forum to get a sense of whether the answer is obvious to experienced runners, or whether is really warrants a meeting.  Also, receiving the many perspectives from veteran runners is enlightening in its diversity.

           

          But I really think your first point is worth emphasizing: I really expected a straight-forward answer to asking about the benefits of a very common feature in marathon training programs.

           

          Btw: I now realize that people may have interpreted my choice of the word "purpose" in a pejorative way.  I only meant it as "what are the intended benefits", rather than "why the heck should I do this?"

           

          If I didn't have a coach, I wonder what suggestions would be substituted in place of "ask your coach."  If I were going from a off-the-shelf training plan, how would I choose how to modify the program?  I realize a lot of people go by what they feel they need -- I'm just not at that experience level yet where I know what I need and could prescribe for myself a workout to address it.  Still gathering data and good suggestions.

          2014 Goals:  sub-3 Marathon 

          Current Status 06/19: Pelvic stress-fracture = 6-weeks of no running.

             

            If I didn't have a coach, I wonder what suggestions would be substituted in place of "ask your coach."  If I were going from a off-the-shelf training plan, how would I choose how to modify the program?  I realize a lot of people go by what they feel they need -- I'm just not at that experience level yet where I know what I need and could prescribe for myself a workout to address it.  Still gathering data and good suggestions.

             

            I went with an off the shelf program (Pfitz18/70). I gave an example a couple of pages back of how missing tune-up races was detrimental to my marathon

             

            I am also new to marathons. In the future I'll make sure to never make this mistake again. Although I'm sure I'll make other mistakes. Learning from these mistakes is what will make us better runners


            Interval Junkie --Nobby

              I went with an off the shelf program (Pfitz18/70). I gave an example a couple of pages back of how missing tune-up races was detrimental to my marathon

               

              I meant more suggestions on a swap-out equivalent.  But yes, I did take your post as a warning, Eric.

              2014 Goals:  sub-3 Marathon 

              Current Status 06/19: Pelvic stress-fracture = 6-weeks of no running.

              xor


                I meant more suggestions on a swap-out equivalent.  But yes, I did take your post as a warning, Eric.

                 

                There is no swap out equivalent to a tune up race.

                 

                  My answer would be: I would trade any of them because your fitness is totally there to run a huge PR, so pretty much all of your workouts are gravy at this point. You can't really screw up your training fitness-wise. The only way you can screw up your race would be through a racing error or by going crazy and training way too hard or something like that. If I were you, I'd try to fit two races in before the marathon -- one longer (10 mile to 25k) and one shorter (5k - 10k).

                  Runners run.


                  Interval Junkie --Nobby

                    Right. Sorry.  Was interrupted about 16 times while writing that post.  Need to re-read carefully before posting a quick response.  Thanks for being patient.

                    2014 Goals:  sub-3 Marathon 

                    Current Status 06/19: Pelvic stress-fracture = 6-weeks of no running.

                      Mikey has made this point before in his rant on the value of 19.6 mile training runs during marathon training: Training /= practice. We don't practice marathons, we train for them. Races at a lesser distance are the closest thing we get to actually practicing. In a race, we get a chance to apply our training. Besides, races are just fun. 

                       

                      I tried to simulate a tune-up race when wasn't available and it sucked. I ran a 5 mile time trial. The only benefit was that I did tire my legs a little prior to the next day's long run. This is part of the Pfitz methodology. The role of a tune-up race in marathon training:

                       

                      • Practice racing - everything, from pre-race meal, clothes, etc. to running a hard, sustained effort. Getting a feel for pacing, etc. 
                      • Run a long run the following day to get a great training stimulus ie: running long on fatigued legs (Pfitz does suggest keeping it to <15k if you're running long the next day)

                       

                        Yeah and to think I wrote that a month before my PR marathon, which, apparently, was back before the invention of paragraphs.

                        Runners run.

                           was back before the invention of paragraphs.

                           and iPhones

                           

                          MTA: OK, not quite, but they were hardly universal 1 year after release. 

                           

                            I fundamentally don't agree that a workout like 8 x 1 mile has the same physical benefits as a 10k race but even putting that aside, racing is also a skill that requires practice.

                             

                            +1

                             

                            The purpose of a tune-up race for me is to help me train mentally and find the outer edge of my performance envelope. Take a few days off running completely and you'll feel discombobulated because your motor control skills haven't been worked out not because you've suddenly lost red blood cells, muscle fibres or any other physical changes which may occur through training or long-term lack thereof.

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