>Racing>Interval purposes (side topic from pg3 of "other than experience" thread)
This is great stuff, thanks, but one more question. When training for my HM this spring I was doing long (~40-45 minute) tempos at what turned out to be a hair under HM pace. So I'm thinking that I eventually want to be running these intervals closer to 10K pace to see any difference between them and the long tempos. Initially I'll run them closer to HM pace just to get my feet wet. Sound reasonable?
Also, from what I'm reading here, is this the order of priority when adjusting (for #3)?
Decrease recovery time
OK, that was 2 more questions.
Feeling the growl again
spaniel, interesting post. Thanks for taking the time to share it with us.
I've read Daniels' Running Formula, and I'm confused as to how Daniels fits in with the above. Classic Daniels intervals, as I understand them, are 3-4 minute efforts at so-called "I-pace" (which would be slightly faster than 5k pace), with recovery times equal or a little less than interval times. These seem closest to #2, but I think your #2 recovery times are significantly longer.
Daniels also writes about "R-pace" for 200-400 meter intervals (he calls them Reps), which look a lot like your #1 intervals. However, unlike your #1 workout, Daniels' reps are done fast, but not all out.
Regarding your #3 intervals, I don't think I've seen anything in Daniels book that looks like this.
Would you mind clearing this up if possible? Thanks!
"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand
I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills
Prince of Fatness
Ham & Egger
Spaniel, Mikey, others:
Here's just another question for you guys: I'm prepping up for a fall marathon, and am doing either 1000s or 1600m repeats@10k current pace (no goal pace stuff, I fried myself on that) or 2x4000m in & outs (10k 400/MP or 1:00 slower than 10kP). Where do you guys typically cap your overall volume? On these kinds of current fitness workouts, I'm inclined to keep it at 8000m worth...does this sound about right? Recovery on the 1000s are 1/4 distance or 1/2 time.
If I'm doing work at 10k pace I usually do around 4 miles worth, but I wouldn't be surprised if spaniel and other high mileage runners do more than that. 8k worth sounds reasonable--I know some people will do a full 10k worth.
For the 10k/MP in out 400s I'd generally do the full race distance that I'm working on. I haven't done that specific workout you're talking about but I've done 600 in/outs at 5K/HMP as well as 400 in/outs at 8k/MP. In those cases I did 5k and 8k worth in total. I haven't done those since '04 but they are great workouts.
By the way, tuscaloosa, I've been spying on your training log--some really nice work. Nice workout on Friday. I did a very similar one on Sunday but I did it during a 20 miler (well 19.5 actually) and ran 3 minutes easy between each 3 mile MP rep. Great workout.
Right on Hereford...
In Daniels book, he talks pace and then gives the appropriate HR, when I do an interval run, I am hoping the pace will put my HR in the appropriate zone, otherwise, I will up the pace to get my HR there, and then I try to hold it for around 600 to 1000 meters, it usually takes me about 1 lap to get it up to above 88 percent zone after a good 15 minute to 30 minute very slow warmup to these intensities. Usually, the pace is close to the proper HR, but I have to make adjustments on the track and it results in about a 1200 meter workout. Its not full speed and I currentely am working on going on to longer intervals like 2k because once I have my HR there, I am trying to put in as much time as possible at that pace and I spent too much time slowing down and jogging the last time, as to the question, I really don't know what they are 4, I just do them because they are suppose to be done.
Everest, I'm not sure if heart rate is useful for interval workouts. It sounds like you're using heart rate to measure effort. One of the big problems with that, as you've already discovered, is that heart rate lags effort by minutes or more. Therefore, you will find yourself running much faster in the early laps of each interval than you should, in an attempt to get your heart rate up to some magic zone.
I don't recall Daniels saying much about heart rate...what does he say, exactly?
OK, I took a stab at this. I decided to go with 6 x 1000 with 90 second recovery. I don't have access to a track, so I programmed the workout into my Garmin and headed to a local park. It's not completely flat, but I don't have to deal with traffic, so it has to do.
I plugged my recent 4 mile race time into the McMillan calculator and it came up with a 4:18 per K pace for a 10K and a 4:33 per K pace for a HM. I figure for this first time I would shoot for anywhere in the 4:20's.
All in all I'm pretty happy with the way it went. Maybe a little fast. We'll see how I feel the next day or so, but I really think I came close to doing these the way I should be according to my current fitness level.
Looks good. Could jog a little slower on your recoveries if you want.