How hard is it to know if an elite athlete is a woman? (Read 2187 times)

    So you're saying this is a non-issue now?  Something tells me it's not that simple.  And something tells me this thread is not done sucking just yet.

    Runners run.

      It's not that simple. It's still an issue. Of course.


      Hawt and sexy

        Snagged from a twitter feed...

         

        univeral sports blurb

         

        I find it interesting that they are saying that she is likely to keep her title after all of the previous dialogue.  

         

        As for her dressed up pic, I would not wear a top that low with my small bewbs.  She seems to have no problem looking nice though. 

        I'm touching your pants.

          As an aside....

           

          You probably know that gender tests were introduced into athletics in 1966 following suspicion that Soviet athletes competing as females were male. Mandatory sex tests were introduced at Olympic Games but dropped after 1992.

           

          But do you know the only female competitor to be excused the examination at the 1972 Games in Munich?

           

          No googling - too easy for that.

           

          Disappointed.

           

          It was Princess Anne.

           

          Some may argue, with reason, that she should have been tested.


          Needs more cowbell!

            I shoot pretty things! ~

            '14 Goals:

            • 2 olympic distance duathlons -- 6 days apart -- PR at least 1

            • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)


            HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

              Yep.

               

              One online article alleging a paper claiming a leak -- is that really reasonably reliable?

               

              I saw Jeff is already to accept congratulations on being right about her being a hermaphrodite, but maybe we should wait a bit for some confirmation -- I mean, it could be someone lying, and a newspaper jumping on it without verifying it, because it would make such a titillating headline.

               

              Let's go back to the images of schoolgirls that mikey wanted to bring in for a little while; that sounded entertaining.

              It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

                <quote=cbc>Several media outlets reported Thursday that gender tests conducted by the International Association of Athletics Federations in July reveal she has internal testes — male sexual organs which produce testosterone — and no womb or ovaries.

                Semenya also has three times more testosterone in her system that a normal female.</quote>

                http://www.cbc.ca/sports/amateur/story/2009/09/10/sp-iaaf-athletics-semenya.html

                 

                That sounds like she's more male than female.

                "Don't feel like running today...suck it up and run ...you're an athlete." (John Stanton, founder & owner of The Running Room)

                 

                "The person who starts the race is not the same person who finishes the race."


                Feeling the growl again

                   

                  One online article alleging a paper claiming a leak -- is that really reasonably reliable?

                   

                  I saw Jeff is already to accept congratulations on being right about her being a hermaphrodite, but maybe we should wait a bit for some confirmation -- I mean, it could be someone lying, and a newspaper jumping on it without verifying it, because it would make such a titillating headline.

                   

                  Let's go back to the images of schoolgirls that mikey wanted to bring in for a little while; that sounded entertaining.

                   

                  Actually, if this report is true, she is not a hermaphrodite but a pseudohermaphrodite (so I was right!!).  A hermaphrodite would have both sets of sex organs.  In this case, she developed mostly male sex organs but the testes remained internal.

                  This is really a tragedy of biology.  Typically in cases like this, from every outward appearance the individually is entirely female and the truth only becomes apparent when they don't menstrate and don't develop secondary female sex characteristics.  

                  While tragic, I don't see how she can be allowed to compete as a female athlete.  That's totally unfair to all women without hidden testes pumping testosterone into their system to boost their performance.

                  "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                   


                  Queen of 3rd Place

                    Aww, poor girl.  This is going to mess with every aspect of her life, I hope she has a good support network of friends and family.

                     

                     

                    Ex runner


                    Just a regular girl

                      Caster Semenya during the SA High Schools Athletic Championships in rustenburg South Africa


                      jules2

                         

                        My rule of thumb regarding sex / gender is someone is male and don't make a pass at me they are hetrosexual, if they are female and don't make a pass at me they are gay, simpules

                        Old age is when you move from illegal to prescribed drugs.


                        Best Present Ever

                           

                          Actually, if this report is true, she is not a hermaphrodite but a pseudohermaphrodite (so I was right!!).  A hermaphrodite would have both sets of sex organs.  In this case, she developed mostly male sex organs but the testes remained internal.

                           

                          This is really a tragedy of biology.  Typically in cases like this, from every outward appearance the individually is entirely female and the truth only becomes apparent when they don't menstrate and don't develop secondary female sex characteristics.  

                           

                          While tragic, I don't see how she can be allowed to compete as a female athlete.  That's totally unfair to all women without hidden testes pumping testosterone into their system to boost their performance.

                          There are any number of women who have testes and circulating testosterone who have been cleared to compete.  the question is whether or not they are sensitive to the testosterone.  If this is the condition Caster  has, she probably needs to have the testes removed for medical reasons, and she would definitely be able to compete in that case.  The science of sports guys have a decent post (really, series of posts) about this issue: http://www.sportsscientists.com/ with the latest covering the latest leak. 

                           

                          If this is all true, what a terrible way for an 18 year old to receive such major medical news.   Though I wouldn't call this a 'tragedy' but rather a condition.   It's a difference, but not a tragic one. 


                          Feeling the growl again

                            If you were to suddenly find out that you had testes, it would only be a "condition" to you?  How about if the whole world knew about it?  THAT is a tragedy...her whole life is undoubtedly turned around.

                             

                            If they are removed that is a whole other story....however she's not going to be nearly as fast once the hormones are gone.  It's pretty apparent from her build and physical features that she is responding pretty well to testosterone, at least as sure as it can be over the internet.  Take a look at how far such hormones can take normal women by looking at pictures of Marion Jones both during her doping phase and again before and after.  Even her voice changed when she came off the dope, and her times were never the same.

                            "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                             


                            Best Present Ever

                              If you were to suddenly find out that you had testes, it would only be a "condition" to you?  How about if the whole world knew about it?  THAT is a tragedy...her whole life is undoubtedly turned around.

                               

                              If they are removed that is a whole other story....however she's not going to be nearly as fast once the hormones are gone.  It's pretty apparent from her build and physical features that she is responding pretty well to testosterone, at least as sure as it can be over the internet.  Take a look at how far such hormones can take normal women by looking at pictures of Marion Jones both during her doping phase and again before and after.  Even her voice changed when she came off the dope, and her times were never the same.

                               

                              I think that the public attention is very difficult, and these are terrible circumstances for a young woman and her family to learn of this medical condition.  The fact that gender isn't binary isn't necessarily tragic, however, so the existance of the condition isn't 'tragic.'  It is, indeed, just a condition.  

                               


                              Needs more cowbell!

                                 

                                I think that the public attention is very difficult, and these are terrible circumstances for a young woman and her family to learn of this medical condition.  The fact that gender isn't binary isn't necessarily tragic, however, so the existance of the condition isn't 'tragic.'  It is, indeed, just a condition.  

                                 

                                 

                                Yep, cancer is tragic.  Organ failure is tragic.  This is a person who is otherwise in exceptional health and with emotional counseling will likely go on to have a pretty regular life.  Seems to me like the world (sporting and otherwise) is pretty supportive of this person, which is far more than a lot of people in similar situations could claim.  


                                I'm sure a lot of questions she has had about her development and physiology will be answered, too.  I doubt that she is completely oblivious to how different she is from other females.  She's an adult and it sounds like she has never had normal female reproductive development.  An 18 year old who has never had a period and doesn't look like her peers can't possibly not have had questions about her physical exterior (and interior) for many years.

                                I shoot pretty things! ~

                                '14 Goals:

                                • 2 olympic distance duathlons -- 6 days apart -- PR at least 1

                                • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)