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Prerequisites for a 12hr race (Read 183 times)


I'm back!

    My PR 12-hour was paced about 2 minutes/mile slower than my long-run pace. But I knew what I was doing by then, and really nailed it. I think faster would be asking for trouble.

     

    If you have a mileage goal, then obviously that will dictate the pace, and I think for many that's what happens (or should).

      Interesting thread, and advice. My 1'st 12 hour race is in about a week and a half. I'll try to remember to report back on how it went, if I survive.

      I literally don't care that I use the word literally incorrectly.


      CUCHSUX

        the worst thing you can do for someone drowning in shark infested waters is throw them a life preserver. don't you think?

         

         

         

         


        Muddling through

          I'll let you know how my inaugural 12-hour race goes after Sept 21. I'm currently running only 35 mpw average but getting in some 20-milers once in a while. B2B runs are coming. Even as slow as I am - 5:30 marathoner currently - I'm hoping to test the 50 mile mark. Interestingly pace to reach 50 miles would be right about 2 minutes per mile slower than my marathon/long run pace.

          2014 Goals: Run first trail ultra, first 100K, and see what I can do in a 24-Hour race


          A Sweetheart

            I've been talking to the drama queen above (Greg), about his race, and he has a game plan similar to something I do in these races.  Break it up into smaller segments. Twelve hours is a long time to run, but you can run three hours right?  Run  three hour segments, have a plan for each segment, and keep your brain in that three hour span.

             

            Also, bhearn said something about keeping even pacing throughout the race. While I would agree that you don't want to go out too hard and blow up, I also think that a slow down is natural and perfectly acceptable (especially on your first one).  As far as pacing goes, I am a big fan of running these types of races at normal easy run pace. Any slower and it feels unnatural. Mixing in scheduled walk breaks (early, before you even think you need them) gives you the benefit of the change in gait and a big psychological boost because you have something to look forward to. Plus, once again you are breaking the race into smaller segments.

             

            As far as training goes, two things hold true for ultras. Miles, miles, miles, and doing long runs on tired legs. The old standard was back to back long runs, but I recover quicker and make much more improvement on a hard tempo-long run combo.

            I want to do it because I want to do it.  -Amelia Earhart

              The advice I got before my first timed race/ultra was from DoppleBock here because I messaged him for advice and he was nice enough to respond;  Start slow. Slower than you feel like you need to... slow enough it feels ridiculous.

               

              (This was easy for me because I run my easy runs a lot slower than marathon pace as is.)

              I did. And everybody was ahead of me.  Was last or close.  It was hard not to speed up but I kept his advice to heart.  And I slowly brought myself up to third female (small event) and had a great experience

              I've had that experience several times.

               

              A lot of people think so much about slowing down later that they start off too fast and turn it into a death march.  I prefer to run and sit up to 12 hours not run and walk so my first laps average a little faster to give room for bathroom breaks and sitting later.

               

              My first 8 hour event was 40 miles in the middle of June in Georgia heat.  My history going in was plenty of past marathons but was doing it on a lark so no taper and no long runs over 14 miles for 2-3 months (don't remember exactly), but 70-80 miles a week.  Estimated my marathon fitness at around 4 hours in good weather at this point.   I was able to run the next day so it's possible I could have done more, but I'm happy it was this way. I'm not sure I would have had the mental ability to push any harder my first time, even if I had the physical ability.

               

              Also, if you go easy early on you can do a lot better.  At the current fitness level of about a 4:30 marathon if I had been racing, I did 54 miles in 10 hours.  I know people who were much faster than me who were ahead of me early on who got exhausted and ended up with less.  (I could not run after this effort over 2-3 miles for a week.  I got every bit my body was capable of out of it.)

               

               

              I'll add timed races are the best!   I love them.  Can't DNF. No pressure. I do really badly at fixed distance because the mental aspect and pressure just KILL me.  Timed races, just think about them one lap at a time. Forget everything else.  You get to see so many people so many times- and you can change to visit with people faster than you sometimes, slower than you others... catch a friend again if you need a break, not lose them forever....   They are SO much fun.

              PR's (certified courses)

              5K-; 21:45 ; 10K- 45:17; Half: 1:41 --- full : 3:40   (2009)

              Distance - 54 mi, 10 hours (2012)

               

              Current Weight: 185 lb

              Goal Weight: 130 lb

                I look forward to reading Greg and wcrunner's experience afterward. Finishing a 12-hr does not seem as far out of reach a goal as I had initially thought after reading the comments and advices here. I need to get started on doing some b2b long runs on the weekends to see how my body responds first. I have done some 13/13 before but nothing as long as like 20/30, because that would be crazy Joking

                  One thing that surprises me is that quite a few of the folks running ultras are running them on less weekly mileage than I would ever dream of.  I can think of a few folks that run a marathon or an ultra on pretty much a monthly basis that I actually have logged more miles than this year, and I haven't logged a lot of miles compared to a bunch of folks.

                   

                  Is that the ideal setup for training to perform well on marathons and ultras?  Probably not.

                   

                  Would you be able to finish 50 miles in 12 hours based on the training and shape that you are in right now?  I think so.

                   

                  Would you perform better and have a more enjoyable event if you did some ultra specific training?  I think so.

                   

                  LOL.  I'm a big expert on the subject too!

                  Age: 46 Weight: 208 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                  Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 44:51; 5K 21:27

                    One thing that surprises me is that quite a few of the folks running ultras are running them on less weekly mileage than I would ever dream of. 

                     

                    Is that the ideal setup for training to perform well on marathons and ultras?  Probably not.

                     

                    Would you be able to finish 50 miles in 12 hours based on the training and shape that you are in right now?  I think so.

                     

                    Would you perform better and have a more enjoyable event if you did some ultra specific training?  I think so.

                     

                     

                    The longest I've ever run in a single event is for a little over 8 hours, but after several races and training runs I can tell you that after 5 plus hours on your feet things get brutal both mentally and physically even with a base of 70 MPW and doing 30 mile runs.  I agree that even 100 milers can be done on lower mileage with B2B or up to 30 mile long runs, but it seems like the sheer difficulty of running for 12 hours straight is being drastically under played.

                     

                    Regardless of how slow you go out it will hurt.  The less training you do, the more likely it will hurt sooner.  So do you want the intense pain to set in 3,6, or 9 hours in during your 12 hour race?Big grin


                    ultramarathon/triathlete

                      This sounds like fun.  I'd love to see how far I could go in 12 hours.  Anyone know if there are any of these in NY/NJ --preferably not in July or August, but maybe Autumn -this heat is killing me on my 1 hour runs lol

                      HTFU?  Why not!

                      Coach: Empire Tri Club 

                      Speed Coach: Brooklyn Tri Club


                      Muddling through

                        This sounds like fun.  I'd love to see how far I could go in 12 hours.  Anyone know if there are any of these in NY/NJ --preferably not in July or August, but maybe Autumn -this heat is killing me on my 1 hour runs lol

                        This was recently posted in the Ultra Running User Group: NJ 3-days-at-the-Fair

                        2014 Goals: Run first trail ultra, first 100K, and see what I can do in a 24-Hour race


                        On On

                          This sounds like fun.  I'd love to see how far I could go in 12 hours.  Anyone know if there are any of these in NY/NJ --preferably not in July or August, but maybe Autumn -this heat is killing me on my 1 hour runs lol

                           

                          Yes you can check out www.njtrailseries.com/oneday or www.njtrailseries.com/fair for 2 options.  One is in Nov and is a 24 hour or shorter option and the other is in May and has 72 hours and shorter.

                           

                          Let me know if you have any specific questions, my wife and I are the RDs.


                          I'm back!

                            Also, bhearn said something about keeping even pacing throughout the race. While I would agree that you don't want to go out too hard and blow up, I also think that a slow down is natural and perfectly acceptable (especially on your first one).  As far as pacing goes, I am a big fan of running these types of races at normal easy run pace. Any slower and it feels unnatural. Mixing in scheduled walk breaks (early, before you even think you need them) gives you the benefit of the change in gait and a big psychological boost because you have something to look forward to. Plus, once again you are breaking the race into smaller segments. 

                             

                            Interesting. WG and DB are the experts here, so listen to them. But I will say that I think I ran my last 12 hour pretty optimally, and did it  even paced, with no walking and no breaks, so there are evidently many ways to skin the cat. It may well be I couldn't have pushed that strategy beyond 12 hours, I don't know. It did not enter my mind that it was even possible to run even splits until I saw a friend of mine do it.

                             

                            I missed this earlier:

                             

                             happyfeet said he could do 50M ... absent that piece of data how would you estimate your goal pace (or about how many miles you could run in 12 hours) in your inaugaural 12 hour race?

                             

                            I think for your first, there are so many unknowns that it's not too bad to just pick a mileage goal that's a round number, or maybe that means something to you, that's not way too easy or way too hard. For my first I targeted 100K... I thought that was conservative, but it was brutally hot, and I barely made it. Having a mileage goal instead of a pace goal I think will be more motivating during the race. After that, well, it's pretty much, can I go farther than I did last time?


                            old woman w/ a hobby

                                But I will say that I think I ran my last 12 hour pretty optimally, and did it  even paced, with no walking and no breaks, so there are evidently many ways to skin the cat. It may well be I couldn't have pushed that strategy beyond 12 hours, I don't know. It did not enter my mind that it was even possible to run even splits until I saw a friend of mine do it. 

                               

                               

                              Damn.

                              steph  

                               

                              OCD  If you don't laugh...   


                              HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

                                (Yannis) Kouros tended to go out fast and slow down, right?

                                It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

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