Forums >Running 101>Tempo and "Long Run" combined?
No more marathons
I'm mostly a low to moderate mileage runner. 1300 miles in 2011, 1600 miles in 2012 and 1500 miles in 2013 - so an average of a little less than 30 per week for the past three years.
I was on pace for another 1,600 mile year in 2014 and had established some age level PR's at the 10K, 5K, and mile until an injury set me back for the last three months.
I'm now back to running 25 or so per week, and have just in the past few weeks reintroduced some tempo, hill, and interval (400's) workouts into my weekly routine.
My plan is to get back up over 30 miles per week by running my normal 4 or 5 each day at lunch time, and then a "long" run on the weekend. Right now that run is about 7 miles, and I plan to add 1 mile per week - aiming for 10 to 12 on a regular basis.
I was thinking of combining my tempo run with the "long" run - since that is really not that much distance for a long run.
Good idea, bad idea, meh?
Boston 2014 - a 33 year journey
Lordy, I hope there are tapes.
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I'm interested to here what the expert say. I'm also a lower mileage runner, 20-30 mpw. I did what you are describing quit a bit last winter. I would do the last 2 or 3 miles of a 7 mile run at tempo pace. For me, I wasn't comfortable running faster paces in the dark.
Labrat
As part of Daniel's marathon plans a lot of the quality workouts are longer runs which include some tempo paced work.
Something like Warm-up, 20T, 60E 20T cool down, is a very effective workout once you are ready to handle it.
He still has 'regular' long runs mixed in there so its not an every time thing.
In your situation wouldn't it be easier initially to just run one of the lunchtime runs faster for now, and build into this sort of thing ?
5K 20:23 (Vdot 48.7) 9/9/17
10K 44:06 (Vdot 46.3) 3/11/17
HM 1:33:48 (Vdot 48.6) 11/11/17
FM 4:13:43 (Vdot 35.4) 3/4/18
an amazing likeness
The 2 runs have different purposes-goals-objectives-stresses-recovery. At a very simplistic level the long run is about building up your body's 'infrastructure', and a tempo run about building aerobic capacity for speed over distance.
Of course, there's nothing wrong in any way with running in any structure you want. If you want the benefit of long-slow-distance, then you need to run LSD. If you want the benefit of tempo -- you need to run tempo.
Personally, I do the workout your describing every other weekend as a half marathon workout-- a couple miles easy, then tempo for 6-8, then a slower finish. I call it a tempo workout.
Acceptable at a dance, invaluable in a shipwreck.
As part of Daniel's marathon plans a lot of the quality workouts are longer runs which include some tempo paced work. Something like Warm-up, 20T, 60E 20T cool down, is a very effective workout once you are ready to handle it. He still has 'regular' long runs mixed in there so its not an every time thing. In your situation wouldn't it be easier initially to just run one of the lunchtime runs faster for now, and build into this sort of thing ?
Yes, that is what I did last week - 1 mile warm up, then three miles at HMP, then a mile cool down.
That does leave me a little drained for the afternoon - bud doable.
The 2 runs have different purposes-goals-objectives-stresses-recovery. At a very simplistic level the long run is about building up your body's 'infrastructure', and a tempo run about building aerobic capacity for speed over distance. Of course, there's nothing wrong in any way with running in any structure you want. If you want the benefit of long-slow-distance, then you need to run LSD. If you want the benefit of tempo -- you need to run tempo. Personally, I do the workout your describing every other weekend as a half marathon workout-- a couple miles easy, then tempo for 6-8, then a slower finish. I call it a tempo workout.
That's what I was thinking of. And partially to make the "long" run a little more interesting. Since I'm not going to be in the 45 to 55 mile range, I don't see doing any of the longer runs at LSD pace. Typically I find that some of my shorter lunch time runs are slower overall than my weekend run.
Starting in November I plan on alternating my Sunday LR's each week. one week with focusing on building distance back up & then following week have some sort of tempo built in.. Something like this: Week 1: 10-12 miles easy Week 2: 10 out/back (negative split) Week 3: 12 easy Week 4: 10 with 20 minute wu, then 10 minutes hard, 10 minutes easy to the end.. Week 5: 12-13 easy Week 6: outback (negative split) Week 6: 13+ Weekly mileage upper 30's/low 40's
This is all in the planning stage & I know will to have to be somewhat flexible because life (and weather) happens but this is my tentative plan. This plan is loosely based on what someone here on RA suggested. Also based on 10k/HM training. If doing training for full would continue slowly ramping up both distance & duration as well as weekly mileage.
Starting in November I plan on alternating my Sunday LR's each week. one week with focusing on building distance back up & then following week have some sort of tempo built in.. Something like this: Week 1: 10-12 miles easy Week 2: 10 out/back (negative split) Week 3: 12 easy Week 4: 10 with 20 minute wu, then 10 minutes hard, 10 minutes easy to the end.. Week 5: 12-13 easy Week 6: outback (negative split) Week 6: 13+ Weekly mileage upper 30's/low 40's This is all in the planning stage & I know will to have to be somewhat flexible because life (and weather) happens but this is my tentative plan. This plan is loosely based on what someone here on RA suggested. Also based on 10/HM training. If doing training for full would continue slowly ramping up both distance & duration as well as weekly mileage.
This is all in the planning stage & I know will to have to be somewhat flexible because life (and weather) happens but this is my tentative plan. This plan is loosely based on what someone here on RA suggested. Also based on 10/HM training. If doing training for full would continue slowly ramping up both distance & duration as well as weekly mileage.
Those looks like a good workouts. My racing plans are undefined for now other than the National Senior Games next July. That will be the 5K and the 1500. Having achieved my goal of a BQ and Boston this year I'm pretty much done with marathons and will be concentrating on 10K and shorter. So I expect my longest run to cap at about 10 or 12.
have also been told that for HM or shorter 1:30 - 2 hours is the "sweet spot" for training runs. Have also found that mile or 2 mile repeats work well for me for HM or shorter races. so midweek (usually Wed) I plan on doing w/o on track, mixing things up but more focus on getting back to doing mile or 2 mile repeats. Seem to work well for me. Just my own personal thoughts & plans, everyone of course is different & I am obviously not a frontrunner in races. Experienced runner? yes, elite? ha ha far from it
Nothing wrong at all with combining the LR with some tempo-ish pace work. I used to think that one should always do the long runs "easy", but then somewhere along the line when I got more acquainted with people who are good marathoners I discovered that a lot of them will put some pretty hard stuff into their LRs, e.g., 20 miles with 5 miles finishing hard at near tempo pace, 13 miles "warmup" followed immediately with 3 x 2-mile repeats at tempo pace, and so on. I now almost always incorporate at least 2 or 3 of such runs into my marathon training cycles. They zap me pretty good, so I certainly don't do these for every LR, but maybe 1/3 to 1/2 of them. Seems to me that scaling this down to half-marathon mileage levels should be totally OK and probably beneficial.
- Joe
We are fragile creatures on collision with our judgment day.
Thanks for the input. My takeaway from this is, sure, go ahead. Just use your head and don't overdo.
I lost a lot of speed over the two months my running was limited, so for now I'm just looking for ways to get some of that back.
Hopefully two quality workouts per week won't cause a re-injury. And my mileage will only increase a couple of miles per week.
There's a 5K the end of this month that is on the same course I set my (Old man) PR at the end of May. That should tell me how far I have to go.
Feeling the growl again
If you want to get stronger, incorporating quality in your long runs (not every one!!) is a good tool to help you get there. Today I did a 10-mile tempo around goal MP as part of a 13.5 mile run. Time allowing I would have stretched it to a real long run of 16-18 miles. Good challenge on the legs, even though not such a challenge to the aerobic system as shorter/faster tempos.
"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand
I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills
How's this as a plan? My long run next week should be about 8 miles. My thought is to do about a two mile warm up, then three miles at about HM pace - for me that is just under 8:00. Then three miles at a regular workout pace of around 8:45.
With that as my schedule for next Sat or Sun, I'm trying to decide between a short hill work, an interval session of 4 or 5 X 400 at 5K pace, or both. Thoughts? Too much?
How's this as a plan? My long run next week should be about 8 miles. hort hill work, an interval session of 4 or 5 X 400 at 5K pace, or both. Thoughts? Too much?
#1 - I did not read the OP closely enough. I was just commenting on the general concept of using tempo in a long run. It's a good idea.
#2 - I never l claimed this was a "plan". I was commenting on the use 8 miles is far from being too much of a "long run" for a HM.
#1 - I did not read the OP closely enough. I was just commenting on the general concept of using tempo in a long run. It's a good idea. #2 - I never l claimed this was a "plan". I was commenting on the use 8 miles is far from being too much of a "long run" for a HM.
Sorry if I made this confusing.
I am the OP and you (and others) really did address my main question - which was regarding including my tempo, and what for me constitutes a "long run" of between 8 and 10 (and maybe in a month or so - 12) miles.
The second part was just me wondering what other quality workouts it is reasonable to incorporate on a weekly basis. And right now, my longest racing distance will be 10K, but more leaning toward 5K. I only mentioned the HM pace as what I would use as my tempo pace in the long run.