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recommended schedule for optimum performance (Read 782 times)


Slow-smooth-fast

    After completing a race tonight I got talking to the winner, who I felt like I already knew as I am so used to seeing his name in first place in all the local races. I asked him about his training, and this is what he told me, "I have done it all, iI used to run over a hundred miles a week, but now I run twice a day, 4 miles each time at a quick lactate threshold pace. If you run slow and long your race pace will be slow. Let your body be used to running at race pace and it will not be a shock to it" I asked him about recovery running, but he said that it is all about how he feels. If he wakes up and his pulse is slightly up, he will just go out without the watch and do an easy one. The thing here is that all his runs, twice a day, for 6 times a week, are fast, and short, and all at threshold pace. He said it is different for everyone but I am confused. I have read so many contradictory arguments, and trust me I have done some reading. I kind of understand where he is coming from, because take for example Sundays which i use for my long run. I may wake up feeling really good, and then go out for a 10-12 mile run at a sustainable not too fast pace. I get home reasonably tired. I am now thinking that if I know that I am feeling good, it makes more sense to go out for say 4/5 mile and do it fast, you agree? Any advice would be great.

    "I've been following Eddy's improvement over the last two years on this site, and it's been pretty dang solid. Sure the weekly mileage has been up and down, but over the long haul he's getting out the door and has turned himself into quite a runner. He's only now just figuring out his potential. Consistency in running is measured in years, not weeks. And over the last couple of years, Eddy's made great strides" Jeff 14 Jan 2009

      I'd say this man is in the minority. I choose to follow what the mass of successful elite runners have followed. That's my thinking.

      Ricky

      —our ability to perform up to our physiological potential in a race is determined by whether or not we truly psychologically believe that what we are attempting is realistic. Anton Krupicka


      Needs more cowbell!

        Here's my take. I could run LT on every run, but it would eventually make me come to hate running and likely land me "on the bench." So I choose to do a variety of run types, run with care, and do what I can to avoid injury. And even if I always ran "fast," I'm certain I'd not be winning races (or even placing)...I'd maybe be running less slow and not enjoying running nearly as much. k

        I shoot pretty things! ~

        '14 Goals:

        • 2 olympic distance duathlons -- 6 days apart -- PR at least 1

        • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)

        Ed4


        Barefoot and happy

          I strongly suspect that this works for him precisely because he has a big history of miles under his belt. He must have built up a fantastic base if he was running over 100 miles per week. It doesn't make sense to try to duplicate him if you're not going to duplicate the whole history. Sure, run only short and fast -- but first spend a few years running over 100mpw. Wink
          Curious about running barefoot? Visit the new barefoot running group.
            Eddy, I recommend this: Based on your 4 mile race time: Once a week do a tempo run of 3 miles at 7:14 per mile or 4-5 miles at this pace with rest in between ( this is your lactate threshold pace based on current best race), best on Fri./Sat. Also, once a week do a speed workout (Tues./Wed.): repeats 1st, intervals later. Your repeat pace based on the 4 miler will be 200's in :46, 400's in:92, 800's in 3:04, any combination not totaling over 5% of weekly mileage. Fully recover between these efforts.(That's 6:10<>pace) The rest of the week do only easy runs(8:05-8:35/or by feel) and 1 long run for the week ( no more than 25% weekly mileage). And all along continue to increase your base mileage by no more than 10% per week, or by feel. Trust me, I'm 42 and within 6 months of this kind of training, I went from a 22:20 5k to sub 19. But that said, "It's something unpredictable, but in the end it's right. I hope you have the time of our life".

            Ricky

            —our ability to perform up to our physiological potential in a race is determined by whether or not we truly psychologically believe that what we are attempting is realistic. Anton Krupicka

            Scout7


            CPT Curmudgeon

              I'm in agreement with the rest of the posters here. Unfortunately, there is no single right answer. Firstly, everyone responds differently to different training. Then there's goals, time available, recovery, nutrition, training environment, etc etc etc ad nauseum. I will say that I've seen more people successful on higher mileage training than on lower mileage training, even at shorter distances. Also of note is the fact that not EVERY run is an LT run. I'm also curious as to what he defines as an LT pace. Does he just go by pace? How does he know how accurate he is? Measured course? Does he use an HRM and has determined his LT zone through a field test or blood test? Too many factors that I would have questions about to really give what he's saying a shot for my personal training. However, he is right. You DO need to run fast, too. I just don't believe that it's as often as he claims he does.
                Eddy, I'll give you a secret workout that helps me also. Cool On the treadmill is a good place to due your tempo runs, and although I haven't seen it suggested , I did this and still do. Every once and awhile, do this. Your best pace for 4 miles or under is 6:51. Your goal pace for your next 5k might be 6:30 (20:09). I do 2 - 2.5 miles at my next goal pace on the treadmill to get used to the pace on my tempo run day, but never more. It helps big-time!

                Ricky

                —our ability to perform up to our physiological potential in a race is determined by whether or not we truly psychologically believe that what we are attempting is realistic. Anton Krupicka


                Slow-smooth-fast

                  Great hwlp here, thanks for the views. Thanks especially pRED, I will take the advice. That 5k time scares the hell out of me, 6:30 pace. wow, I will try the tempo and see how i feel. BTW he is a sports physicist and has all the equipment for measuring his vo2 max, so he knows tha and also has runs laid out by his garmin. keep the tips coming.

                  "I've been following Eddy's improvement over the last two years on this site, and it's been pretty dang solid. Sure the weekly mileage has been up and down, but over the long haul he's getting out the door and has turned himself into quite a runner. He's only now just figuring out his potential. Consistency in running is measured in years, not weeks. And over the last couple of years, Eddy's made great strides" Jeff 14 Jan 2009

                    Lots of good advice here. I agree with the basic sentiment. But actually, I think this guy's got a decent 5k-10k schedule. He's got moderate miles (48 miles a week with a day off is not really low mileage). He's got a lot of intensity, but by doubling and taking a day off, he's also got a lot of recovery time. He's also tapped into his body and not afraid to take an easy day if he feels bad. And he's doing a lot of race-specific work. Obviously, this guy is a very experienced runner, and like Ed4 says, he's probably got an enormous lifetime base. But even more than that, he's been running for a long enough time to have figured out what works for him. And I bet if his race times stagnate, he'll experiment with another type of training. Not only is the right training different for everyone, it is also different for the same runner at different stages in their career. There is no secret, no silver bullet. And as soon as you think you've got it all figured out, you realize you don't know crap. But why would we expect running to be so different from the rest of life?


                    Slow-smooth-fast

                      SO if my lactate threshold is 7:14 (where did you find that out?), then what is the difference between doing 4/5 mile at this pace, and doing it in 1 mile stages with recovery time in between? I have heard good things about resting in between but surely this is no good as this is not simulating how it is going to be in a race.

                      "I've been following Eddy's improvement over the last two years on this site, and it's been pretty dang solid. Sure the weekly mileage has been up and down, but over the long haul he's getting out the door and has turned himself into quite a runner. He's only now just figuring out his potential. Consistency in running is measured in years, not weeks. And over the last couple of years, Eddy's made great strides" Jeff 14 Jan 2009

                        SO if my lactate threshold is 7:14 (where did you find that out?), then what is the difference between doing 4/5 mile at this pace, and doing it in 1 mile stages with recovery time in between? I have heard good things about resting in between but surely this is no good as this is not simulating how it is going to be in a race.
                        If you are running at or slightly above threshold pace, you are gradually building up oxygen debt, or whatever it is called. Basically, you're running at slightly faster than you can steadily maintain for a long distance. Resting or using recovery runs once in a while allows your body to clear out the "fatigue" (acid or whatever built up in muscles) so that you can keep training. In theory, yeah, if you could run 4-5 miles straight at that pace, you'd get the same effect, but the whole point is you aren't able to do that. If you can, that pace probably isn't really your lactic threshold. Does that make sense? Your schedule seems very reasonable to me. You and I aren't very far off as far as pacing goes. In fact, I was running a similar pace to you at the beginning of the year. I'd say pred's suggestions are pretty solid, provided you can handle the extra intensity of a second hard day per week. I'm currently around 20 miles a week, and I think I want to build my pace into upper 20s before adding a speedwork day to go with my tempo day. If you maintain your current schedule and just keep adjusting your paces as your race times go down, I don't doubt you'll see improvement. I've been using the McMillan calculator with good success so far this year, and you might take a look at that to see what your predicted paces should be. I shoot for 1 intense day, 2 easy days, and 1 long day per week, and occasionally add another intense day. It sounds to me like you just need to remember to be patient. It looks like your times are coming down, just keep up that trend. Don't rush it too much, or you can set yourself back. Ironically, becoming a better runner is a slow process. Big grin