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Argo movie- Hollywood rewrites history. (Read 855 times)


Feeling the growl again

    Canadian Ambassador Ken Taylor and Immigration Officer John Sheardown sheltered the six Americans in their own homes, risking arrest to do so.

    The Canadian Government provided passports and helped plan the escape.

     

    But the movie shows the CIA as the heroes, and has a postscript saying the Americans "allowed" Taylor to take the credit.

     

    I can understand the studios wanting to appeal to an American audience, but is the real story not exciting enough to do that- does Ben Affleck have to lie?

     

    The Longest Day and Saving Private Ryan showed the same sort of bias, from watching these movies you would not realize how late the US entered the Second World War, or that the majority of the troops landing in Normandy under Montgomery were British, Canadian, Australian and Free French.

     

    If you want to glorify the US why not make movies about the Gulf War, in which Americans really did the vast majority of the fighting?

     

    +1, the role of the US in WWII is so over-blown.  The UK, Canada, and Free French were doing such a bang-up job of driving the Germans back to Berlin all by themselves.  Roll eyes

     

    Frankly Europe owes FDR a hell of a lot for fairly effectively fighting a war through lend-lease, Flying Tigers, and other programs, long before he had support of the populace to fight a foreign war.

     

    Being quite well versed in WWII I appreciate the roles the many Allies played in that particular conflict and, for one, do not feel the need to try and belittle the contributions of any of them in the fight against what is probably the most evil man to have ever walked the earth.  

     

    As for D-Day, perhaps the majority of troops under Montgomery were non-US, but Montgomery was not the supreme commander of the invasion.  That would be Eisenhower.  Taking a look at the sources below, Americans accounted for very close to half of all the troops landed and greater than half of the dead (due primarily to the greater carnage on American-landed beaches like Omaha).

     

    Death by country:

    http://www.angelfire.com/ct/ww2europe/stats.html

     

    MTA:  "They have recorded the names of individual Allied personnel killed on 6 June 1944 in Operation Overlord, and so far they have verified 2499 American D-Day fatalities and 1915 from the other Allied nations, a total of 4414 dead" -- The US suffered far over half of all dead on D-Day.

     

    Another source:

    http://www.ddaymuseum.co.uk/d-day/d-day-and-the-battle-of-normandy-your-questions-answered

     

    The US landed 73,000 troops; the Canadians landed about 22,000.

     

    If you're going to stoop to taking a swipe at the US role in WWII, it would help to actually use accurate information to avoid looking uninformed.

     

    FWIW, Canada apparently did not post large enough numbers to appear in many of the above statistics.  Not to minimize their role and sacrifices at all, but since you saw fit to minimize the US it's fair to point that out.

     

    And +1 I have no idea what movie you are talking about.  But it's silly to give Hollywood any credit for historical accuracy or expectation that they do so.  And sillier to rip on a nation that made big sacrifices, based on Hollywood's output.

    "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

     

      I have obviously not made my point clear and I apologize to anyone I offended.

       

      My point was that the movie industry does not hesitate to distort facts or enhance a story to make it more dramatic.

      If they then state that the movie is based on facts we get the wrong impression that it is at least close to historically accurate when this may not be the case.

       

      I hope this will end the discussion.

      PBs since age 60:  5k- 24:36, 10k - 47:17. Half Marathon- 1:42:41.

                                          10 miles (unofficial) 1:16:44.

       


      Feeling the growl again

         

        My point was that the movie industry does not hesitate to distort facts or enhance a story to make it more dramatic.

         

         

        Well that is 100% true.  I'd say that's pretty true for media in general...news included.

        "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

         


        Needs more cowbell!

          I have obviously not made my point clear and I apologize to anyone I offended.

           

          My point was that the movie industry does not hesitate to distort facts or enhance a story to make it more dramatic.

          If they then state that the movie is based on facts we get the wrong impression that it is at least close to historically accurate when this may not be the case.

           

          I hope this will end the discussion.

           

          This is nothing new and I always thought was pretty much commonly accepted.  Even the best Hollywood renditions of history are rarely entirely accurate.  I watch a documentary when I want accuracy.

          I shoot pretty things! ~

          '14 Goals:

          • 6 duathlons (1 Olympic distance)

          • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)


          Imminent Catastrophe

            A couple of points....

            1. France declared war on the Nazi's 2 days after they attacked Poland.

            2. Canada is in North America and was not attacked (it's just north of the USA) Smile  Canada declared war 9 days after the Nazi's attacked Poland.

             

             

            France declared war on September 3 1939, and then did what...nothing until they were invaded in May 1940 (Google "phony war"). Canada is part of the British Commonwealth and therefore was party to the UK declaration of war. I'm not discounting Canada's contribution at all but you were implying that the US was peripheral to the effort which is simply not true. And an isolated engagement by a US warship isn't sufficient provocation to enter a nation into a world war.

            And BTW, AmorePerros is right, Russia paid a price almost unimaginable by we in the West, they lost, probably 20 million of their own, many of those were of Stalin's doing but nevertheless, the price paid by Russia dwarves dwarfs that paid by all the Western countries combined.

            "Able to function despite imminent catastrophe"

             "To obtain the air that angels breathe you must come to Tahoe"--Mark Twain

            "The most common question from potential entrants is 'I do not know if I can do this' to which I usually answer, 'that's the whole point'.--Paul Charteris, Tarawera Ultramarathon RD.

             

            √ Tahoe Rim Trail 100M 20/21 July 2013

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            Feeling the growl again

               

              And BTW, AmorePerros is right, Russia paid a price almost unimaginable by we in the West, they lost, probably 20 million of their own, many of those were of Stalin's doing but nevertheless, the price paid by Russia dwarves that paid by all the Western countries combined.

               

              +1, back to the links I posted.....Russia's numbers are jaw-dropping.  Hitler was #1 but Stalin makes a compelling argument for #2.  Regardless of the cause, Russia sacrificed enormously.  Satlin was going to be the one to have Berlin regardless of what it cost them.

              "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

               

                France declared war on September 3 1939, and then did what...nothing until they were invaded in May 1940 (Google "phony war"). Canada is part of the British Commonwealth and therefore was party to the UK declaration of war. I'm not discounting Canada's contribution at all but you were implying that the US was peripheral to the effort which is simply not true. And an isolated engagement by a US warship isn't sufficient provocation to enter a nation into a world war.

                 

                 

                Sorry... tough day.  (Watched the Ben Johnson 30/30 event last night and tonight....)

                I'm deeply rooted in what happened in WWII, and grateful for all who brought my dad's family from the Nazi's.  I do know how my grandparents felt after the war, and can only imagine the confusion of those days.  That was 70+ years ago, but it's too close to home to have an unbiased / untainted perspective.  For whatever reason, my dad's family chose to go to Canada, where I spent the first 18 years of my life.  The last 22 years have been here in the USA.

                Sorry for offending anybody.  It was not my intent.

                2014 Goals:

                #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

                #2: 365 Hours training <NOPE, INJURED>

                 

                  Russia's losses were appalling, and dozens of nations suffered losses- it truly was a global conflict.

                   

                  Eisenhower was Supreme Allied Commander, but naval operations were commanded by Admiral Ramsay, air support by Leigh-Mallory (possibly related to the mountaineer?) and ground troops by Montgomery. I know nothing about the chain of command in the Pacific theatre.

                   

                  My earlier comments were not intended in any way to diminish or glorify the efforts of any nation in the war, either Allied or Axis, including the US. Some personal background may help explain this statement.

                   

                  My father was English, living in Germany and married to a German national when Britain joined the war in 1939. He was arrested and spent six years in concentration camp living mostly on bread and turnips. Sixty seven  years later I still have a dark brown US Army blanket to remind me who got him out.

                   

                  After the war my father moved to France and taught at a French university, met and married my mother, and them moved to Africa for his health. I grew up in Rhodesia, whose Prime Minister in my teenage years was Ian Smith, a decorated WW2 Spitfire pilot incidentally. My sister later lived in Germany for several years, earned two of her degrees from German universities, and became a professor of German.

                  PBs since age 60:  5k- 24:36, 10k - 47:17. Half Marathon- 1:42:41.

                                                      10 miles (unofficial) 1:16:44.

                   

                    The US landed 73,000 troops; the Canadians landed about 22,000.

                     

                    and to be fair to Canada... that's easily a larger contribution from Canada than the USA in terms of relative size of the population.  If anyone wants a movie to see a hero of D-Day and beyond... watch any of the old Star Trek movies and just wonder why you don't see Scotty's right hand in any close ups.  Thanks Canada for everything. 

                     

                    But yeah... Omaha was bad and that's one reason it's in the movies.  D-Day is just one of those symbolic events like Iwo Jima.  Important to be sure.  But not the largest casualties of the war.  Nobody in the USA makes movies about the Battle for Narva Bridgehead.  It doesn't hold the same symbolism. 

                    In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion

                    http://htwins.net/scale2/scale2.swf?bordercolor=white&fb_source=message

                     

                     

                     


                    Feeling the growl again

                      and to be fair to Canada... that's easily a larger contribution from Canada than the USA in terms of relative size of the population.  If anyone wants a movie to see a hero of D-Day and beyond... watch any of the old Star Trek movies and just wonder why you don't see Scotty's right hand in any close ups.  Thanks Canada for everything. 

                       

                       

                       

                      As I said I would not belittle the contributions of ANY of the Allies.

                       

                      Regarding when various nations declared war, let's not forget that the western European nations spent several years trying to appease Hitler and keep him from coming after them by agreeing to let him have some of his neighbors.  I'm sure in retrospect they regretted that, as I am sure many in the US regretted isolationist tendencies leading up to the war.

                      "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                       


                      Prince of Fatness

                        If you are looking for a decent documentary of WWII this is pretty good...

                         

                        http://www.amazon.com/The-World-30th-Anniversary-Edition/dp/B0002F6AH0

                         

                        Disclaimer:  I don't own it and the last time I saw it was in the 1970's when I was a kid.  I just remember that it was something that I did not want to miss each week.

                        Semi-retired.

                        xor


                          >> the price paid by Russia dwarves

                           

                          Is it wrong that I chuckled at this?

                           

                          Yes, yes.  I know.

                           


                          Needs more cowbell!

                            >> the price paid by Russia dwarves

                             

                            Is it wrong that I chuckled at this?

                             

                            Yes, yes.  I know.

                             

                            Admittedly, I had to read it twice.  I've probably been watching too much Chelsea Handler...

                            I shoot pretty things! ~

                            '14 Goals:

                            • 6 duathlons (1 Olympic distance)

                            • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)


                            Imminent Catastrophe

                              >> the price paid by Russia dwarves

                               

                              Is it wrong that I chuckled at this?

                               

                              Yes, yes.  I know.

                               Spell-check is of no help in this situation.

                              "Able to function despite imminent catastrophe"

                               "To obtain the air that angels breathe you must come to Tahoe"--Mark Twain

                              "The most common question from potential entrants is 'I do not know if I can do this' to which I usually answer, 'that's the whole point'.--Paul Charteris, Tarawera Ultramarathon RD.

                               

                              √ Tahoe Rim Trail 100M 20/21 July 2013

                              Boston Marathon 21 April 2014

                              Tahoe Rim Trail 100M 19/20 July 2014


                              just a simple cat

                                So back to the Argo movie.....even though we agree it messes with History, Ben Affleck does look good with a beard, yes?

                                 

                                I  guess as you get more bodacious, you begin to lose more brain cells, because there is a limit to how much magnificence your body can house

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