RunningAHEAD - Topic: Marathon - Starting off to fast

RunFree7

Run like a kid again!

posted: 4/12/2009 at 5:56 AM

So everyone knows that part of the race is the surge at the begining when everyone goes too fast to start and they want to bank some time. If you are planning on running lets say a 3:20 marathon (7:40) pace what would be starting out to fast be? Would you be okay running the first mile at say 7:30? What will happen if you start out too fast?

RickStraughen

posted: 4/12/2009 at 6:16 AM
modified: 4/12/2009 at 6:44 AM

Yes, you would be ok starting off at 7:30. How large is the marathon you are running? I've found that in the larger marathons there is a good chance that your first mile will actually be slower than your goal pace because there is not much room to run. Don't go out of your way to pass a lot of people, just be patient. What kind of warmup are you doing before the race? If you aren't doing one, then just think of the first mile or two as a warmup and don't worry too much about getting exactly on your pace until after that. Even if you're slow by 20-30 seconds per mile, there is a lot of distance to make up that time. For example, if you are 48 seconds behind where you should be at 2 miles, you will need to run 7:38 instead of 7:40 per mile, not too much of a difference. It definitely beats the alternative of going out too fast. So you want to know what happens if you go out too fast? Simple answer: bad stuff

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KMB

posted: 4/12/2009 at 7:33 AM
modified: 4/12/2009 at 8:43 AM

As someone who has mastered going out too fast (I have several marathons proving it), I'd say 730 is ok, but I'd say you'd be real wise to err on the side of 750 rather than 730. The first mile or two, in the grand scheme of things, are like April babseball games - yeah they'd be nice to be W's instead of L's, but the August and September victories are simply more meaningful... likewise, I'd be a lot more concerned with miles > 20. I have a spreadhseet of my marathon paces over the past 4 years that I'd be happy to share... it is a bad movie combination of out too fast and lack of endurance... a vertitable 'how-not-to' Angry

Rhode Island Road Runners

DoppleBock

posted: 4/12/2009 at 8:38 AM

banking time in the 1st mile will wreck you. 1st 1-2 miles about MP or 5 seconds slower.

Long dead ... But my stench lingers !

brerfootbill

Half Fanatic #846

posted: 4/12/2009 at 8:39 AM

Quote from RunFree7 on 4/12/2009 at 5:56 AM:

If you are planning on running lets say a ... 7:40 pace what would be starting out to fast be?

7:39

"I don't always roll a joint, but when I do, it's usually my ankle" - unk. "Frankly autocorrect, I'm getting a bit tired of your shirt". I ran half my last race on my left foot!

AmoresPerros

Options,Account, Forums

posted: 4/12/2009 at 9:07 AM

I'm not all that experienced, but if I was targeting 7:40 (a reasonable target for me) and I hit the 1st mile at 7:30, I'd slow down for the next mile.

It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

Buckeye

posted: 4/12/2009 at 9:27 AM

I think you may want to plan 7:50 or actually 8:00 as have been seeing a lot where first few miles of MP + 20/30 are the way to go. that way your warmed up and body starts to burn energy more efficiently?? Either way better than burning excess energy as often have heard that faster 30 sec costs you 60 secs+ in the later miles. If you plan on 7:30 then you may even go faster so if you get in your mind for a slower start even if race day excitement takes over you are back at MP.

"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it Great!

RunFree7

Run like a kid again!

posted: 4/12/2009 at 12:21 PM

Wow some great advice and thanks for all of the responses but in the end what does it do to your body? Why is it so bad? KMB I would love to see that spreadsheet.

mikeymike

posted: 4/12/2009 at 12:35 PM
modified: 4/12/2009 at 12:37 PM

There are lots of reasons why going out too fast is bad. The worst of which for less experienced marathoners is it causes you to burn up a lot of fuel early in the race because when you're not warmed up and you're amped up on adrenaline your body uses fuel less efficiently. Your heart rate spikes and unless you're a really high volume runner, you're not very good at recovering at race speeds. A 100 mile per week runner can afford an opening mile that's 15 seconds too fast, much more than a 50 mile per week runner can. If you run 10-15 seconds too fast for the first 4 miles, odds are very good that you'll be giving back 1-2 minutes per mile (or more) in the last 5 miles, and in a very painful way. I'd recommend aiming for 10-15 seconds slower than MP for the first mile or two, if for no other reason than hopefully your aming for a slow pace cancels out the adrenaline rush and you wind up very close to MP for your first couple of miles. As others have said, though, in big marathons the crowd can often take care of this for you. In those cases, when you're packed in, DON'T waste a lot of energy in the early miles trying to bob and weave through the crowd...just be patient and wait until things open up.

Runners run

Jeff

Why is it sideways?

posted: 4/12/2009 at 12:55 PM

Good advice here. Another thing that is not talked about enough with regard to the marathon is that it is taxing because it requires a long period of intense concentration. If you are in "race mode" running hard from the gun, then you are using precious mental energy early in the race at a stage where very little concentration is needed. Relaxing those first few miles and running easy will pay dividends when you have to ratchet up the intensity later in the race. Also, running relaxed and easy early will help you ease into marathon pace from "the bottom up," helping you to run as relaxed as possible at that pace.

bhearn

posted: 4/12/2009 at 1:38 PM

Actually 3:20 is 7:37.7 per mile. I'm very familiar with this pace; I run lots of marathons as medium-hard workouts at 3:20 pace. My pacing strategy for 3:20 is very simple: run the first half at 7:40 and the second at 7:35. It gives you a nice, moderate negative split, and the math is not too hard. (If you want to get more precise with where you are at each mile relative to even 3:20 pace, here's a convenient fact: it's 7 and a half minutes plus seven and a half seconds per mile. Multiples of 7 and a half are easy to compute.)

RunFree7

Run like a kid again!

posted: 4/12/2009 at 5:22 PM
modified: 4/12/2009 at 5:24 PM

Well techincally I just need 3:20:59 but I get your drift with the numbers. I like your 7:40 and then 7:35 especially for the PIG which is hill heavy at the start and then flatter in the second half. I will aim to run between 7:45 and 8 min for the first two miles. Let things warm up and then kick it into another gear. I just ran a marathon last Sunday where I started out too fast 7:00 minute first and 7:15 second. Then I slowed down to a decent pace but still a little faster then I should have. All things were going okay until mile 8 when we went into the wind. It was the most boring race ever, no crowd support, very few water stops and once the half marathoners took a turn it was very lonely (150 marathoners). Good news is that I finished 25th bad news I finished with a 3:40 which I am trying to figure out what happened but I think that start was a good reason for it. At mile 13 I was just on Marathon pace but things were getting harder. By the end of the race I was running 9:20 miles. All of these things make sense. I hope not to make the same mistakes in 3 more weeks. Now I just have to figure out how to recover from that race while still being ready for the PIG. Any advice on that front?

bhearn

posted: 4/12/2009 at 5:49 PM

Quote from RunFree7 on 4/12/2009 at 5:22 PM:

I just ran a marathon last Sunday where I started out too fast 7:00 minute first and 7:15 second. ... I hope not to make the same mistakes in 3 more weeks. Now I just have to figure out how to recover from that race while still being ready for the PIG. Any advice on that front?

Well, 4 weeks between marathons is not a problem if you use the first as a training run instead of a race, at least if you are used to that. But if you raced it, then you are asking a lot of yourself to race another in 4 weeks, and to improve.

KMB

posted: 4/12/2009 at 9:27 PM

Quote from RunFree7 on 4/12/2009 at 12:21 PM:

KMB I would love to see that spreadsheet.

Let me figure out how to post it.. could be 12-120 hours ;-)

Rhode Island Road Runners

perfesserr

Imminent Catastrophe

posted: 4/12/2009 at 10:35 PM

If you're running the Pig, that's quite different. It's mainly uphill for 8 miles, then gradual downhill. If you try to maintain 7:35 or even 7:40 for the first part, especially miles 2-8 which are the biggest climb, then you're in for trouble. I can't offer specifics other than trying to keep close to your race pace in that first 8 miles is not such a good idea. I PR'ed at the Pig with negative splits because I went out cautiously, conserving my energy until mile 9.

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Marathon - Starting off to fast (Read 875 times)