3650 Miles in the Hurtlocker

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Pfitz vs Hanson vs vs Lydiard vs Daniels vs Canova (Read 339 times)


Will Crew for Beer

    Next April? I thought it was next Sunday. Sheesh.

     

    That'll just be a fast(ish) training run. Big grin

     

    I plan to crush the Carmel Half Marathon.

    2014 Goal: Run Monkey as my first marathon. Brilliant!


    Feeling the growl again

      That'll just be a fast(ish) training run. Big grin

       

      I plan to crush the Carmel Half Marathon.  Spaniel farms beer mile

       fify

      "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

       


      Will Crew for Beer

         fify

        Hah! If I can just finish that will be an improvement. 

         

        I'm sure I'll be running a 6 min mile by then and I've already started searching for the perfect beer to chug. Now if you can just manage to NOT pick the hottest day of the year I should be all set. Big grin

        2014 Goal: Run Monkey as my first marathon. Brilliant!

           fify

           

          Hah!  I think WhoDat is fine for the running piece.  The challenge is to find that perfect beer AND the right temperature.  Let me tell you, warm(ish) Heineken is not the right one.

           

          I think you need to incorporate a buildup plan for this leading up to it.  You know, start easy.  Drink a beer, run a lap for starters.  Add one the next week.  Stay at 2 or 3 repeats for a while and focus on your drinking speed.  That shoud do the trick.


          Will Crew for Beer

            Hah!  I think WhoDat is fine for the running piece.  The challenge is to find that perfect beer AND the right temperature.  Let me tell you, warm(ish) Heineken is not the right one.

             

            I think you need to incorporate a buildup plan for this leading up to it.  You know, start easy.  Drink a beer, run a lap for starters.  Add one the next week.  Stay at 2 or 3 repeats for a while and focus on your drinking speed.  That shoud do the trick.

            Yeah, I definitely need to work on the drinking part. Speed work and VB2max training I think are key.

            2014 Goal: Run Monkey as my first marathon. Brilliant!


            Hawt and sexy

              Ok, am I reading bhearn right? In Hansons tempo equals MP?  And that gets done a whole lot during the plan? If that's true, I'm guessing that it would be great for someone heavy in fast twitch, but not so hot for slow twichers like me.

              I'm touching your pants.


              Feeling the growl again

                Ok, am I reading bhearn right? In Hansons tempo equals MP?  And that gets done a whole lot during the plan? If that's true, I'm guessing that it would be great for someone heavy in fast twitch, but not so hot for slow twichers like me.

                 

                Why?  I'm slow on the uptake today.  Smile

                "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                 


                I'm back!

                  I'm curious too. Is the implication that MP, as a "fast pace", is easier for someone with more fast-twitch muscles, and that perhaps the balance of speedwork / long runs should be different depending on your slow-twitch / fast-twitch balance? I guess that does seem reasonable... after all the big tradeoff in Hansons vs. Pfitz is more MP (emphasis on aerobic development) vs more long runs (emphasis on endurance and glycogen storage).


                  Will Crew for Beer

                    I've been looking at training plans for a goal HM in April. I was planning on using a Pfitz plan from his book Road Racing for Serious Runners. I have not read Advanced Marathoning yet since I don't yet run marathons. I've been reading Daniel's Running Formula, but the plans are somewhat complicated and he lumps the HM in with the marathon training plans complicating trying to figure out a HM plan somewhat.

                     

                    Out of curiosity I went to the Hanson's Coaching Services website and grabbed the advanced HM training program. The layout of the schedule fits my personal schedule pretty well, so I'm thinking of giving it a shot. It looks like it might be a little aggressive for me, but I think I can handle it. I've created a training plan here on RA from the Hanson's plan.

                     

                    Hanson's Advanced HM Plan

                     

                    If you'd like to take a look at it and post comments or feedback on the plan it would be appreciated.

                    2014 Goal: Run Monkey as my first marathon. Brilliant!

                       

                      Hanson's Advanced HM Plan

                       

                      If you'd like to take a look at it and post comments or feedback on the plan it would be appreciated.

                      All I can say is that plan will even prepare you to run a decent full marathon.

                       

                      I copied it and hope to follow it with some changes for a planned April 13 HM, hope that's OK with you. I just can't run both Sat and Sun, so will be a significant departure from the plan as the mid long Sat is a big part of the overall picture and why we can get away with a shorter Sun, but then I am only planning to run a HM.  Running 6 miles at goal HMP is likely going to be the toughest workout for me.


                      Feeling the growl again

                        WhoDat, there is not a hell of a lot of difference between training for a marathon and a HM.  Just spend a little less energy on the longest of the long runs and put it into more quality in shorter long runs and your mid-week long run.  Perhaps -- gasp -- an extra interval session or two.

                        "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                         


                        Will Crew for Beer

                          All I can say is that plan will even prepare you to run a decent full marathon.

                           

                          I copied it and hope to follow it with some changes for a planned April 13 HM, hope that's OK with you. I just can't run both Sat and Sun, so will be a significant departure from the plan as the mid long Sat is a big part of the overall picture and why we can get away with a shorter Sun, but then I am only planning to run a HM.  Running 6 miles at goal HMP is likely going to be the toughest workout for me.

                          No problem. My HM is on April 20. It looks like you're a bit faster than me. What's your goal time? Maybe we can make a race of it. Big grin

                           

                          The plan up to week 8 doesn't worry me too much. Weeks 9-11 will be tougher, but I think I can handle it. Week 12 and on starts to worry me a bit, but hopefully I'll have built up to it. From the stupid mileage stunts we've done I've found that I can run every day as long as I don't run too hard. Once the HMP runs get over 4 miles it will make things a little harder, but I'm used to doing 4 mile tempo runs at 10K pace, so we'll see.

                          2014 Goal: Run Monkey as my first marathon. Brilliant!


                          Will Crew for Beer

                            WhoDat, there is not a hell of a lot of difference between training for a marathon and a HM.  Just spend a little less energy on the longest of the long runs and put it into more quality in shorter long runs and your mid-week long run.  Perhaps -- gasp -- an extra interval session or two.

                            I'm sure that's why Daniel's lumps the HM and marathon together. I'm too busy at the moment doing stupid mileage stunts to try and figure out one of his plans. Big grin

                             

                            The Hanson's HM plan seemed like a good fit and it kind of reminded me of some of the example training weeks that you've posted in the past. I'm going to start it with a goal HM pace of 8:00 min and see what happens.

                            2014 Goal: Run Monkey as my first marathon. Brilliant!


                            Hawt and sexy

                              While marathon pace isn't incredibly fast, doing much more than 10 miles at a time is going to recruit my fast twitch. This may be awesome if you have a ton of it, but I don't have a lot of that to go around (or if I do, it sure doesn't wanna do it's job unless I am going downhill). I'm just going to get spent sooner than I need to in a workout and not be able to recover quickly enough for the next day's workout. Then you add in my weird peak timing to the fact that I just don't recover like I did in my late teens/early twenties and I see all sorts of problems. I would also think doing these long MP runs would cause mirco-tears after a certain point, and that would add recovery time. I will grant you that I train mostly slow like, but this would make my recovery runs super slow.

                               

                              I might have more fast twitch than I think, because I did do 800s back in the day. Right now, my half and full PRs are way better than age-grade wise my old age 5k PR. I will admit that that could be due to the fact that I just don't do speedwork like I did way back when. HS was a steady diet of intervals pretty much every practice, I just kinda refuse to do a steady diet of speedwork anymore. 120 miles of it in 8 or 10 weeks would not go over well in this body. I can tell you right now I would get burnt out and just not be into it mentally come raceday.

                               

                              I guess my biggest worry is just going over that 5-10% mileage barrier of speed in a week. I don't think this is an awesome idea for someone that is way past their fast (ha! I made a funny) years. But if I was say 22-25, I might be game.

                              I'm touching your pants.


                              I'm back!

                                While marathon pace isn't incredibly fast, doing much more than 10 miles at a time is going to recruit my fast twitch.

                                 

                                Actually Pfitzinger has you going over 10 at MP, but Hansons don't. They just have MP runs every week; Pfitzinger only has 4 total.

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