Would I cheat if it was worth a few million dollars to do so and the likelihood of being caught was fairly remote?  Yep.  Sure would.  Especially if not cheating meant I'd barely be eking out a living.

Serious question, but I wonder if Lance Armstrong, Barry Bonds, Alex Rodriguez, Mark McGwire, etc would agree with this.  They made their money but are universally despised, have received death threats, are booed everywhere, taunted by fans, their kids are taunted at school, they have very little respect among the general public, and their respective sports have turned their backs to them.  I wonder if they think the money was worth it.

It's easy to look back and have regrets. It's easy to say I would never do that because look what happened to those guys.

But at their height of popularity they were THE MAN. Adulation, money, power, etc. Those things are very intoxicating and history proves they can be very destructive. Those that have those things never believe it is going to end badly. They absolutely thought it was worth it when they started and probably right up to the point they were caught. Hell, Armstrong* probably still thinks it was worth it.

*I'm on record as thinking Lance was a d-bag long before he was busted. He always struck me as an arrogant prick and I was in the camp that always thought he was doping.

 

Serious question, but I wonder if Lance Armstrong, Barry Bonds, Alex Rodriguez, Mark McGwire, etc would agree with this.  They made their money but are universally despised, have received death threats, are booed everywhere, taunted by fans, their kids are taunted at school, they have very little respect among the general public, and their respective sports have turned their backs to them.  I wonder if they think the money was worth it.

I would disagree about McGuire being universally despised. Even at Congress, I don't recall him lying as he wasn't there to talk about the past. When he became a coach for the Cardinals he admitted using long before most of the others did. He didn't throw anyone under the bus like the others did. I despise Armstrong more than the rest as he ruined careers.

admirable ethics.

 

Yawn - SOS - see here:  http://www.runningahead.com/groups/BF_and_Beyond/forum/ac77e8e6b9b64563b8c9c96bf3b715e5/0

Officer of the court?  nice example.

Would students cheating on history test be given a pass because if they fail they won't earn a decent living?

Bah.

 

Thankfully I don't need to define that, WADA does it for us in terms of what is allowed. (in terms of athletics anyway. US Prosports have different, much laxer rules and unions that seem more interested in protecting their dopers, than trying to ensure clean competition)

 

Caffeine - whilst demonstrated to be performance enhancing in endurance sports is fine.

 

OTC pain pills again are fine. There is an ongoing debate about tramadol, which currently isn't banned, but I woudl argue should be.

 

 

Altitude training, and altitude tents are OK and these can boost blood red cell counts.

Taking EPO is not.

You missed the point of my question. I wasn't asking what was and wasn't on WADA's list. I know what those answers are.

What I find interesting is what we determine to be "good" performance-enhancing stuff and what is "bad" performance-enhancing stuff. All of those things I've listed could be argued to boost performance. I understand (I think) the need for guidelines and rules but your parenthetical comment is what I was kind of thinking about - situational ethics.

I respect LtH's statement.

 

Yes, obviously it is wrong and unethical but too many people eagerly stand on the soap box and proclaim "I would never.....!",  having never been in the position of those people who do cross the line. It's really easy to make that statement but read accounts of some of the Tour de France cyclists during the late 90's and 2000's. They were doing something they loved, got paid well for doing, and knew others were doping. If they didn't they wouldn't be able to keep up. The pressure to do it was substantial. It was their livelihood.

 

If I'm a Kenyan on the edge of the elites, scrapping together a few bucks to keep my goat farm going every year, I may be just a bit tempted to try something to help me drop a few minutes over 26.2 miles for those six figure payouts and sponsorship $'s that could possibly set my family up for a couple generations.

 

I'm not claiming that people are lying when they say they wouldn't use. Most obviously don't. I just don't think one knows for sure until you have been put in the position.

 

 

Question (and potential tangent to this thread): How do you define "performance enhancing" and where do you draw the ethical line?

 

Asthma inhaler?

Galen Rupp on thyroid medication?     http://www.runnersworld.com/elite-runners/do-many-us-distance-runners-have-thyroid-problems

Cadaver ligaments used in ACL surgery?

Tommy John surgery for pitchers?

Altitude tents?

Alter-G treadmills for injury recovery?

Advil, Tylenol, etc.?

 

I could make an argument that we all use performance enhancers. The only difference is what we have decided is legal and "ethical" versus what we haven't.

To me, a performance enhancer are those that give you an edge.  An asthma inhaler, for example, does not give anyone an edge, it improves the poor breathing capacity to less than 100%.  If it would increase breathing at above 100%, I would say it is performance enhancing, but they never do.  And they are among the list of medications one needs to report and get an exception for.  Silly.

I remember one guy told me oh, now you have an inhaler, you're cheating.  Right, like going from 48% breathing to 54% is cheating.  OMG!  Make way for me, I'm going to win the race now.

Question (and potential tangent to this thread): How do you define "performance enhancing" and where do you draw the ethical line?

 

Asthma inhaler?

Galen Rupp on thyroid medication?   

Cadaver ligaments used in ACL surgery?

Tommy John surgery for pitchers?

Altitude tents?

Alter-G treadmills for injury recovery?

Advil, Tylenol, etc.?

 

I AM PROOF THAT THIS IS A PERFORMANCE ENHANCER.