Low HR Training

"Expose Your Slow Twitchers" Daily Maffetone and/or Low-HR Training Reports (Read 23292 times)

SD_BlackHills


    My HR was higher yesterday and my average was 146, blah.  I was also slow AF yesterday so not sure what was what.  It was a hillier route, though.  Anyway, the 4 I ran were good.

     

    Docket, I just thought of something that might help you.  Maybe.

     

    My HR on the hilly routes is now BARELY higher than the flatter ones.  That never used to be the case.  Fundamentally, I've made 2 changes that resulted in this.  First, I started doubling a LOT with very short evening runs.  Second, I started running slow repeats up and down a steep hill next to my house OR doing 5-7% grade continuous slow runs on the treadmill.  It's important to note that these were not run hard at any point.  All of it was DEAD easy at a very low HR, almost a walk but definitely still jogging.

     

    After those 2 changes, my HR going uphill is MUCH lower at all efforts/paces.  Since I changed 2 things at once, I can't be sure what actually caused this improvement for me.  But if I had to guess, it was all the SLOW uphill running.  Basically, it feels slow enough that you could do it all day but fast enough that it still feels like a "jog".

    Docket_Rocket


    Former Bad Ass

      Oh, I'm barely jogging those uphills and they sometimes feel like walking so hoping eventually they will lower my HR.

       

      Today we were evacuated (drill) and I had to go up 10 flights of stairs on the way back. Man, I felt out of shape, lol.

      Damaris

      SD_BlackHills


        Oh, I'm barely jogging those uphills and they sometimes feel like walking so hoping eventually they will lower my HR.

         

        Today we were evacuated (drill) and I had to go up 10 flights of stairs on the way back. Man, I felt out of shape, lol.

         

        Haha, it's funny that you say that.  I can do a pretty good 8 to 10 mile run in the morning without breathing hard at all and then get to work and walk up 2 flights of stairs and be winded.  I'm not kidding!  Stairs are infinitely more difficult than running uphill in my experience and are by default an anaerobic activity.

         

        You will absolutely see lower HR's on the uphills soon.  I think the key is to not run them hard which allows you to run them longer.  Like anything else in life, the more you do something, the better you get.  Overall, I think the EZ uphills make running fast on a flat much easier as well.  I just make sure that effort wise, I'm breathing lightly through the mouth (I think nose breathing is TOO easy) but the breathing is very light.

        Docket_Rocket


        Former Bad Ass

          I do love my TomTom Optical HR so when I wear my Garmin I noticed it's a POS.  See why?  My Max was 196 a few years ago.

           

          GPS Interval<button>Manual Laps</button>

            Type Distance Duration Elapsed Time Pace Avg HR Max HR Notes
          1 Interval 1 mi 12:14.01 12:14.01 12:15 129 147  
          2 Interval 1 mi 11:53.10 24:07.11 11:54 121 142  
          3 Interval 1 mi 11:49.13 35:56.24 11:50 126 146  
          4 Interval 1 mi 11:40.16 47:36.40 11:41 126 151  
          5 Interval 1 mi 11:21.83 58:58.23 11:22 123 144  
          6 Interval 1 mi 11:07.20 1:10:05.43 11:08 131 153  
          7 Interval 1 mi 11:08.82 1:21:14.25 11:09 141 168  
          8 Interval 1 mi 11:21.36 1:32:35.61 11:22 150 183  
          9 Interval 1 mi 11:28.70 1:44:04.31 11:29 126 151  
          10 Interval 1 mi 11:27.65 1:55:31.96 11:28 107 130  
          11 Interval 1 mi 11:35.25 2:07:07.21 11:36 149 211  
          12 Interval 1 mi 11:25.05 2:18:32.26 11:26 207 216

          Damaris

          SD_BlackHills


            I do love my TomTom Optical HR so when I wear my Garmin I noticed it's a POS.  See why?  My Max was 196 a few years ago.

             

            GPS Interval

              Type Distance Duration Elapsed Time Pace Avg HR Max HR Notes
            1 Interval 1 mi 12:14.01 12:14.01 12:15 129 147  
            2 Interval 1 mi 11:53.10 24:07.11 11:54 121 142  
            3 Interval 1 mi 11:49.13 35:56.24 11:50 126 146  
            4 Interval 1 mi 11:40.16 47:36.40 11:41 126 151  
            5 Interval 1 mi 11:21.83 58:58.23 11:22 123 144  
            6 Interval 1 mi 11:07.20 1:10:05.43 11:08 131 153  
            7 Interval 1 mi 11:08.82 1:21:14.25 11:09 141 168  
            8 Interval 1 mi 11:21.36 1:32:35.61 11:22 150 183  
            9 Interval 1 mi 11:28.70 1:44:04.31 11:29 126 151  
            10 Interval 1 mi 11:27.65 1:55:31.96 11:28 107 130  
            11 Interval 1 mi 11:35.25 2:07:07.21 11:36 149 211  
            12 Interval 1 mi 11:25.05 2:18:32.26 11:26 207 216

             

            Did you die between mile 11 and the finish?  

            Docket_Rocket


            Former Bad Ass

              Looks that way!

              Damaris

              SD_BlackHills


                Haha, just noticed the cat in the picture.  Awesome

                SD_BlackHills


                  California International Marathon is Sunday.  Weather looks good.  50 to 54 degrees with breezes under 10.  Chance of light rain.

                   

                  Really taking it easy this week.

                   

                  CIM Plan:

                  Taper - Not going to run in the morning at all this week. I'm opting to "sleep in" and get a short, easy afternoon run in after work with a few days of complete rest. I'm going to throw in some random accelerations to compliment the short easy runs.

                  Nutrition - I found some interesting information where Lydiard suggested about 8 oz of honey in the last few days before the marathon in addition to a high-carb diet. Not all at once but just a little bit here and a little bit there throughout those days. Going to give that a whirl as I've noticed that honey before my workouts has gone very well. Morning of race have honey on wheat toast, a small coffee, one packet of raisin and spice oatmeal and water. I also plan on taking 3 Imodium to avoid repeating a problem that I had in a prior race. 

                  Race - Find sustainable, sub-threshold effort that I can hold early and, if possible, slightly inch up the effort as I go until I feel I've passed the danger point late in the race where I'll attempt to crank up the effort. Vanilla Bean Gu's before nearest aid stations to Mile 7, 14 and 21 so that I can wash down with water. Looking forward to the excitement of the event, the euphoric feeling of fast/easy running in groups of like minded people, leading up to taking on the challenge and digging deep at end.

                  Docket_Rocket


                  Former Bad Ass

                    Good luck!  Please report back!

                     

                    BTW, I bought a Stryd to get some power information.  It should be fun to see and how it compared to the HR readings.

                    Damaris

                    SD_BlackHills


                      Good luck!  Please report back!

                       

                      BTW, I bought a Stryd to get some power information.  It should be fun to see and how it compared to the HR readings.

                       

                      Cool!

                       

                      I don't think I could live without my Stryd, simply for the accuracy of the distance and pace measurements no matter where you are.  You'll be able to see just how accurate or inaccurate different treadmills are which is always fun.

                       

                      The power information is interesting.  If you somehow come up with a power target and just stay on it, you'll probably find that you'll end up with lower HR on your runs as well.  It will essentially slow you down as soon as the uphill starts instead of later after your HR has gone up.  As soon as you crest the hill it would have you speed up immediately instead of waiting for the HR to come down.  Compared to following HR, there is literally no delay and you make much faster adjustments.

                       

                      I found doing this would result in faster average pace and lower average HR if I actually followed a power target.  Probably because you are more or less at even effort the entire way.  Following HR, you are basically responding to a delayed response (HR feedback).  If you think about it, you run up to an effort then your HR catches up to that stimulus moments later.  If you overshoot then you slow down.  But then you probably undershoot, so you speed up.  Then you overshoot again.  Slow down again.  Rinse and repeat.  Following the power target, you just go to it and stay there.  It's much more natural without so many changes in effort while pursuing the HR target.

                       

                      Full disclosure, I do not actually train with a power target or HR target anymore.  I currently am very interested in the power, HR and pace numbers after the workout is over but am unaware of what they are in real time.  I focus on relaxation, breathing and my legs and by doing so just end up with Low HR numbers.  I do believe that training to a power target absolutely taught me how to run much more relaxed by feel which allows me to do what I do today.

                       

                      Another thing that is nice is comparing Power to HR.  What's important to know is that Stryd isn't actually giving you a Power number.  What is it then?  It's actually a made up scale that gives you a super precise grade adjusted pace number.  If you think about it, this allows you to compare fitness gains / losses between any workouts.

                      Docket_Rocket


                      Former Bad Ass

                        This should help especially when I'm traveling and need to use one other than mine.  Once I get it, I'll run on the TM a half mile to see how (in)accurate it is.

                         

                        So how does it work?  For my TomTom, which is not compatible with it, the website says I can still use it as a footpod so I guess it will pair with it and then give me the footpod distance instead?

                        Damaris

                        SD_BlackHills


                          This should help especially when I'm traveling and need to use one other than mine.  Once I get it, I'll run on the TM a half mile to see how (in)accurate it is.

                           

                          So how does it work?  For my TomTom, which is not compatible with it, the website says I can still use it as a footpod so I guess it will pair with it and then give me the footpod distance instead?

                           

                          You have a TomTom fitness watch?  Hmmm.  That's interesting.  I'm not sure.  The footpod gathers information no matter what you do but I've never used it without syncing it directly with a watch.  On the Garmin, it has an option to override GPS pace and distance with Stryd pace and distance.  I'd have to contact Stryd support to get help on the TomTom.

                          Docket_Rocket


                          Former Bad Ass

                            My Garmin 225 is almost not compatible with it.  So either one will not show power during the run, but later when I upload the workout.

                             

                            The TomTom works the same way as the Garmin.  Footpod will prevail and I can use that pace and distance, which is what I'm planning to do once I receive it.

                            Damaris

                            SD_BlackHills


                              My Garmin 225 is almost not compatible with it.  So either one will not show power during the run, but later when I upload the workout.

                               

                              The TomTom works the same way as the Garmin.  Footpod will prevail and I can use that pace and distance, which is what I'm planning to do once I receive it.

                               

                              Ok good.  I know that some watches have issues with that.  You can do a simple test to see if you are truly getting distance and pace off the footpod.  Just go into your watch's settings for the footpod and change the calibration factor to some crazy high or low number.  Then go run down the street a little ways.  If the pace looks RIDICULOUSLY fast or slow then you know it's working.  Then you can just change the calibration factor back to the correct setting.  Whatever you do, don't turn on Auto Calibration.  That's bad.

                              SD_BlackHills


                                Where my training is right now.  This is last week:

                                 

                                General aerobic - No workouts this week - No recovery

                                Mon #1 - 70 min @ 7:39 (138 bpm)
                                Mon #2 - 30 min @ 7:36 (133 bpm)
                                Tues - 60 min @ 7:32 (136 bpm)
                                Wed - 60 min @ 7:28 (139 bpm)
                                Thurs #1 - 60 min @ 7:33 (136 bpm)
                                Thurs #2 - 30 min @ 7:36 (132 bpm)
                                Fri #1 - 45 min @ 7:33 (140 bpm)
                                Fri #2 - 30 min @ 7:27 (142 bpm)
                                Sat - 2:10 Long Run @ 7:34 (137 bpm)
                                Sun - 45 min @ 7:18 (143 bpm)

                                Total Miles - 75.1
                                Duration - 9:26