RunningAHEAD - Topic: Thu Sep 18 Runs and Workouts

posted: 9/18/2008 at 6:18 AM

Today I decided I had better run at least one or two runs at marathon pace before the marathon Smile

So this morning's run was 8 with 6 at MP or better, and the average for the whole run ended up a little faster than MP -- a nice confidence builder. 8.1 miles, 1:03 (yes, a PBJ Special®, within 1 sigma), 7:48/mi, AHR 156

Lou, (aka Mr. predawnrunner), MD, USA | Lou's Brews | lking@pobox.com

Dave59

posted: 9/18/2008 at 7:10 AM

Thought about getting up early and doing a long run but couldn't convince myself to do it. So just a short easy 3 miles in the dark. (Long run will have to wait until Saturday.)

Holly S.

Marathon Maniac #957

posted: 9/18/2008 at 7:24 AM

Enkephalin wrote:

Quote from enkephalin on 9/17/2008 at 8:23 PM:

Holly I watched that video too, and noticed the same thing....like the guy is kicking his butt. I was watching a marathon once and was convinced that the men were running with a much more pronounced high back kick than the women, whose legs swung closer to the ground. For some reason I decided that this was a direct result of women having a lower centre of gravity. It must be more efficient for them that way. You all agree or refute?

I don’t know, Enk, personally I thought the guy looked like he was part grasshopper…..Spareribs – will you weigh in on this discussion? Is this high back kick something I should be trying learn to do? Deez4boyz wrote:

Quote from deez4boyz on 9/18/2008 at 12:20 AM:

i did get to see my youngest son compete in his first race ever today -- so fun -- the team finished very strong!!

Denise – very kewl! I hope you took pictures. No run for me today. Even though I’m not planning on giving Saturday’s HM a race-effort, I’m still doing a mini-taper for it, in case I get a little exuberant. While I am definitely on the mend, I believe that I am also ripe for re-injury if I’m not careful, and it seems to be attempts at speed that make me sore.

Life is a headlong rush into the unknown. We can hunker down and hope nothing hits us or we can stand tall, lean into the wind and say, "Bring it on, darlin', and don't be stingy with the jalapenos."

Runrtim57

Marathon Maniac #3309

posted: 9/18/2008 at 7:25 AM
modified: 9/18/2008 at 8:04 AM

Good morning Smile

Thanks again for the good Start off Lou. Very nice run with MP pacing...and quicker Smile

I love those confidence booster runs which I had also. Sorry your belly still hurts Mary Sad

Holly, after your races are over, I would over the course of the winter gradually work on mid foot striking, and not worry so much about how high you kick your legs back. The only time I felt like what you were describing, was during my 200 M repeats on the track last night. OH KNOW, I just now read where Bill said he is leaving RA...that is truly sad and hope he reconsiders, as I find Bill to be a great guy and fellow runner. You know how we talk about having bad runs when we feel good, or good runs when we feel bad? Last night I figured my planned workout would be bad because I was tired and legs felt heavy and sluggish. I was yawning driving home from work after a 12 hour workday. And it's still pretty warm out at about 80 degrees starting my run. Oh well, I knew I was going to do my workout regardless, so I tried to have a positive attitude before taking off. Plan was Mid week long run with 6 - 1000 M repeats at about 4:30 - 7:15 pace, and 3 - 200 M repeats at about :42 to :45 seconds which is 5:33 to 6:02 pace. Once I starting running my legs actually felt awesome and peppy which made me happy. I wore my new shoes without the heel lifts because I don't want to get dependent on those things. Total miles 13.3 - 1:42:05 - 7:41 overall pace which I was happy with and didn't feel that hard at all. 1000 M repeats 4:27 - 7:09 pace 4:22 - 7:01 pace 4:27 - 7:09 pace 4:26 - 7:08 pace 4:26 - 7:08 pace 4:25 - 7:06 pace This were a little too quick, but I like the consistency. 200 M repeats - which was suppose to be run to work on form, but still be strong...I didn't know how to pace these, but just ran good and strong with good form. :35 - 4:41 pace Shocked

:40 - 5:21 pace :39 - 5:13 pace These repeats were run hard, but not as fast as I could have, And I did have good form which what felt like a perfect mid foot strike, and running tall with a slight forward lean, and legs felt as light as feathers...cool feeling to run fast Smile

Overall, this was probably my best running workout ever, and didn't feel too hard and had gas in the tank even when finished...really wanted to run a few more miles, but need to live to run another day! And the best news....my heel and feet never hurt what sooo ever, so I guess my news shoes did the trick on what was causing my pain and funky gait. Sorry for the long description, but I am really pumped and hope I am peaking, speed and endurance wise at the right time for my Marathon Smile

Good runs to all today, or what ever your plans are today. Tim

Running has given me the courage to start, the determination to keep trying, and the childlike spirit to have fun along the way - Run often and run long, but never outrun your Joy of running!

hopeful4ever

Mr. Chip & Mizz Rizzo

posted: 9/18/2008 at 7:25 AM

I got up, put my shorts on and then said to myself "if you go out there you are going to have a bad run just like yesterday", as my stomach is still achy - so I let the dogs back in and went back to bed. I think it was a wise choice and got some much needed extra zzzzzz's.

~Mary

"My sunshine doesn't come from the skies,
It comes from the love in my dog's eyes."

~unknown

http:www.rawleypointkennel.com

evryday

posted: 9/18/2008 at 7:35 AM

hopeful...wise choice, now is not the time to push. pfriese.....you must have been on the other side of the lake...I didn't see anyother runners yesterday. I don't run Olverholser often, but I think about running into you every time I do. (Don't take that the wrong way Big grin

) No run for me today. But to the rest of you Masters.....ENJOY!

Quit being so damn serious! When we change the way we look at things, the things we look at change. "Ya just gotta let it go." OM

CNYrunner

posted: 9/18/2008 at 8:33 AM

Even cooler this AM at 47F at 6:00 AM, but clear and beautiful skies. I ran 13.4 miles at a steady pace (8:02ish most of the way). I am driving up to NH later for a client day on Friday and then meeting my guys in Essex, VT on Friday night. I’ll run a 30k (Common to Common 30k) there on Saturday as an MP test race and my boys are planning to hike and bike there while I run. Hockey season is well underway, but the weekend games don’t hit until October. This is one of our last weekend adventures and I can’t wait. It’s probably time to bring the basil in and some of the other herbs in my container garden-----frost warning for Saturday night…..marathon weather! Enke and Holly----one of my running buddies---one of the non-Js is an MD/PhD and studies bio-medical engineering and bio-mechanical engineering. There is a center of gravity difference for many women that relates to foot strike according to her. She studies hip width and musculo-skeletal differences in men and women and the impact (pun intended) and the frequency of injuries in endurance athletes. Anyway, just be careful if you make changes. One size doesn’t fit all. Tim, don’t apologize about reporting on a great workout. Way to go and it seems you are in the zone! CNYrunner

Peter NC

Hill Runner

posted: 9/18/2008 at 8:45 AM

Good monring, A beautiful cool 60F here this morning, almost perfect running weather. 8.07 miles of hills @ 9:07 pace. I used the HR monitor on my Garmin this morning & noticed that my HR is noticeably lower than I'm accustomed to seeing...didn't know it it somehow needs to be calibrated or maybe it's just the cooler weather....anyway, a good run for me today. Enjoy the cooler weather out there today.

Upcoming Races:

Boston Marathon, Boston,MA 04/15/13
Grandfather Mountain Marathon,Boone NC 07/14/13
Thunder Road Marathon, Charlotte NC 11/13

stumpy77

Trails are hard!

posted: 9/18/2008 at 9:01 AM

Tim--that workout sounded fantastic--they're rare enough that you should feel excited. My runs are nothing to compare with yours, but on the exceedingly rare occassions that everything works, it sure feels great! happy new shoes, too Smile

And when I grow up, I want to run a PBJ special like Lou (and PBJ) Kevin

Need a fast half for late fall. Then I need to actually train for it.

Holly S.

Marathon Maniac #957

posted: 9/18/2008 at 9:10 AM

Quote from Runrtim57 on 9/18/2008 at 7:25 AM:

Overall, this was probably my best running workout ever,

YAY!!! Great job!! I love to see it coming together for you, Tim.

Life is a headlong rush into the unknown. We can hunker down and hope nothing hits us or we can stand tall, lean into the wind and say, "Bring it on, darlin', and don't be stingy with the jalapenos."

Spareribs

King of PhotoShop

posted: 9/18/2008 at 9:22 AM

Headed out to walk a bit, with no running at all, just to be safe. The healing process is a slow one when you are older, and particularly after very invasive surgery. The surgeon said a funny thing to me last week. I asked him when my pulse would get back down to the mid-40's which I am used to, as it is around 72 now. He said, "Your heart has been beaten up. Be patient." I am feeling a bit achy, so today I will walk. Since Tim has "outed" me as the creator of his workout, let me explain that I don't recommend this kind of work for anyone, except in the final 4-6 weeks of a long marathon training program when someone is very fit. Everything is done within its time and place. I gave him a tiny dose of speedwork to practice form only, with full recovery so as not to get him into oxygen debt. If I had more confidence about his heel issues, I would give him some VO2 max work around now. Holly, there are a few things you can do differently to alter your stride, but having a high return of the trailing leg is probably not one of them. Carl Lewis used to get his shorts dirty from his leg kicking his butt on the return. We are not Carl Lewis. Fortunate are those who have that efficient stride but I don't see too many masters runners who have it. Go watch a boys cross country meet and they all have it, a beautiful sight to see. Spareribs

lyndenrunner

posted: 9/18/2008 at 10:00 AM

Another rest day for me... Nice run Tim... Enjoy your walk Ribs...it's great to be outside doing anything

Looking for a place to Happen, making stops along the way - The Hip

mainerunnah

posted: 9/18/2008 at 10:02 AM

Quote from Runrtim57 on 9/18/2008 at 7:25 AM:

Sorry for the long description, but I am really pumped and hope I am peaking, speed and endurance wise at the right time for my Marathon

Tim you should never have to apologize for your posts, especially when they involve running and even more so when they involve such a work out as this one was. You are certainly looking good for your upcoming marathon...what are you looking to run for a time? I would love to run a marathon alongside you or any race for that matter (until that final kick of course) Wink

, we seem to be pretty close in our training and I think we could help each other out immensely. Good luck and keep up those great runs. P.S. I think Ribs is doing his hard running vicariously through you! Big grin

Dark Horse

posted: 9/18/2008 at 10:08 AM

I am really enjoying Ron Daws's book, The Self-Made Olympian. I recently bought it cheap from an English bookseller who must not have realized what he had, because the 10 used copies available at Amazon start at $46. While browsing the web to learn more about Ron Daws, I came across this interesting post on another running website: Legend has it that Dick Beardsley, the two-time Olympic marathon qualifier and the fourth fastest American ever to run 26.2 miles, coached himself from a book. The story had intrigued me for years. Call me slow, but I only recently realized that Dick's own story, "Staying the Course" was still in print. I finally got a copy and laid the legend to rest. Having just run 2:20 for 44th place in the 1979 Nike/Oregon Track Club marathon, Dick realized he had a good crack at becoming world-class - if he kept improving. (By the way, he still tops the Guinness Book of World Records list for the longest consecutive series of faster marathon times - 13 in all.) At that point, as he puts it: "I didn't have a coach, but I had a book: 'Self-Made Olympian' by Ron Daws. It was my bible. I referred to it constantly for workouts." Not only is Ron Daws's personal story inspirational, but there is great practical value in his book because he is a Lydiard devotee who read Lydiard's books and knew Lydiard, and he is able to interpret Lydiard's training advice which is sometimes confusing. Spareribs is a Lydiard fan, and of course he has this great Daws book, which occasionally he will quote from here. Dark Horse

I'm a dark horse, running on a dark race course.

Tramps

posted: 9/18/2008 at 10:11 AM

Tim—nice! You deserve to be psyched. Mary—feel better soon. Ribs—that major change in your HR is interesting; I hadn’t thought of that as a side effect of surgery. DH—interesting post; sorry to see some of the reaction. You were rather flippant—both there and in your response to Twocat--( might want to watch that) but the gist of the post regarding the multi-faceted nature of the crisis seems pretty conventional. I’d be interested in other views, but I guess we won’t get that. And, yes, we ain’t seen nothing yet in relation to the coming environmental crisis. Think oil is bad? Wait until the fighting over water heats up. Twocat—I take seriously your point. I think too often modern media and the Internet provides just the sort of “echo chamber” that you mention. That’s why I think it is important for spaces where civil discussion can take place among people with diverse views, a point I went on about this at some length a few days ago. We can’t just wish it to happen; we need to do it ourselves. 12 miles @ 8:40 but a total lack of energy today; it was a struggle. I went through the mental checklist: sleep was okay; yesterday’s workout wasn’t too strenuous…then it hit me…I was late for a meeting last night and grabbed a bite of leftovers on the way out. That was dinner and it clearly was inadequate for a 12-miler. At least that’s my operating theory. Those of you who have them, enjoy the cool temps! P.S. given all the financial crisis news…probably the most engaging media content I’ve seen about the mortgage and credit crisis was an hour-long episode of NPR’s “This American Life,” called “The Giant Pool of Money.” (It’s available free on-line below or you can download it for a nominal fee.) It’s not political; it just asks the question, “How did this happen?” and then follows the “chain” from individual homeowners, to mortgage sellers, to the big investment firms, to the global economy itself. If you know nothing about this kind of thing, it’s a great place to get an overview. If you’re pretty well-versed in this stuff you’ll appreciate the masterful presentation of complex issues in an accessible, nuanced, and very human way. http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=355

Be safe. Be kind.

Masters Running

Thu Sep 18 Runs and Workouts (Read 512 times)