Masters Running

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Wed Dec 10 Runs and Workouts (Read 493 times)

Tramps


    I enjoyed the thought-provoking posts regarding the "how many days to run?" question. It is an interesting and complex issue since it is influenced by so many different factors including: 1) individual physiology, 2) running goals, 3) non-running life factors. For example, I protect Saturday as a non-running day for several reasons: it's my one day to sleep in a bit, which I find very, very important since I often have to skimp on sleep at other times. It's also my day to tackle my endless list of bigger chores and projects around the homestead. And, of course, rest is a part of training, too. That leaves me with a max of 6 days to run. I tried what Ribs describes—short run + core work, but that just doesn’t work for me. It ended up that this supposedly “easy” day took more time than most other days, bumping into my work day. Also, when pressed for time, I found myself getting the miles in but skipping the core work and dedicated stretching (which I find very boring). (I always do brief stretching after every run, though.) In the long term, I think I’ll benefit more from a day of core work and stretching than I will from 3 more easy miles. But it’s a trade-off, of course. Also, I do best with a regular schedule where I know Sunday is LR day, Monday is an easy day, Tuesday is tempo day, etc. So, for now, it’s run 5 days: one longer run, one tempo run, one day that varies (MP, interval, etc), and two easy/GA days.

    Be safe. Be kind.

    wildchild


    Carolyn

      It warmed up to a very pleasant, sunny 46 degrees, so I went out for 6.1 miles at lunchtime, avg pace 10:52. There was only one block where the sidewalk wasn't cleared, but the rest was fine. Twokitty, glad to see you posting again!

      I hammered down the trail, passing rocks and trees like they were standing still.

        ((tim)) i am totally slacking -- it hit close to 60 i believe here today (altho it was a partial sleep day for me after working the last 2 nights) but it was soooooooooo windy and rainy when i went to bed this morning and then raining again when i woke up this afternoon that i just couldn't muster any motivation -- need to work on that!!

        denise


        King of PhotoShop

          Tramps, this is why I put so many qualifications in my post. If only 3 days works for you, so be it. My intent was about race fitness. You will be fitter if you can run every day. I understand all the reasons you and others have for not being able to fit in 7 days of running, and that was the main point others made. But if you do have time available, running every day, with a focus on light days being really light, will get you in the best shape. Fatozzig, I was afraid that the dreaded Garmin may have influenced you. The solution is in the course certification. If the course was certified, then your Garmin is most assuredly wrong. In fact, if it was certified with a Jones counter, than you may be pretty sure it was even a tad longer than 30K, certainly it couldn't be shorter. Spareribs
            I never trusted my Garmin when I used it. Granted, I had the old 201 and I'm sure the technology has improved but it would often give me different readings for the exact same course. I still have it somewhere, but I don't use it any more. I am in a simplicity mode I guess - not using the HR monitor either. I'm interested in the theory that running every day will get you in better shape than taking one day off. What exactly is the rationale behind that Ribs? Is that the case even if running requires you to skip weight training or is that in combination with continued weight training? I am very far from an expert on the topic and it has been a long long time since I ran every single day. I might have to consider trying it again, at least when I have the time. Meg

            Once a runner . . .

              SR - Never thought of that. Their web site says: Race director Terry Mitchell and her team are working to make this year's run the best ever. The High Desert 50k will again host USATF Southern California Association 50 km Trail Championship, as well as the Southern California RRCA State Championship. We are again the last stop for the Southern California UltraRunners Grand Prix Series. As always we have some great sponsors joining us and we hope you will all use their fine products. I guess that would mean they're certified (?). Need to check and see if the RD has gotten back to me. If this is the case, wonder how I fix my Garmin. Which also means maybe I've been running more miles than I'm aware of. Hey, maybe I'm closer to 1,000 for the year than I thought! Big grin

              Leslie
              Living and Running Behind the Redwood Curtain
              -------------

              Trail Runner Nation

              Sally McCrae-Choose Strong

              Bare Performance

               

              Teresadfp


              One day at a time

                Leslie, that is interesting about your Garmin - mine usually reads 1-2% LONGER than the certified courses I run. So I figure I'd better run some extra to make SURE I did 1000 this year!


                King of PhotoShop

                  I never trusted my Garmin when I used it. Granted, I had the old 201 and I'm sure the technology has improved but it would often give me different readings for the exact same course. I still have it somewhere, but I don't use it any more. I am in a simplicity mode I guess - not using the HR monitor either. I'm interested in the theory that running every day will get you in better shape than taking one day off. What exactly is the rationale behind that Ribs? Is that the case even if running requires you to skip weight training or is that in combination with continued weight training? I am very far from an expert on the topic and it has been a long long time since I ran every single day. I might have to consider trying it again, at least when I have the time. Meg
                  Meg, keep in mind that I was not advocating running in place of core (weight), cross-training and stretching, and I was careful to say that if time is the issue then it is what it is. I know very well how busy you are for example. And I also acknowledge that people have to do, or will do, what they feel is right for them. But the top runners run every day, and the top runners also are very careful about recovery days. Let's take a 60 mile week with two key workouts: Sunday long run and Wednesday track, tempo or wave run. Say the combined total mileage of those two key workouts is 34 miles. That leaves us with 26 miles to run on the remaining five days. Let's say that on Monday and Thursday you do a slow 3 miles. Now we are down to running 20 miles in 3 days. I think a 60 mile a week runner can run 7, 7 and 6 at an easy pace on those days, and feel very fresh. Those two slow recovery days are much more beneficial to the body in accelerating recovery than two days off would be, and if the runner had to add those six miles back into his three days of easy running, he is now looking at 9, 8 and 8 for his other three days, a tad more effort. The main point is that your light, slow days are always recovery days from your key workouts, and I am sure many will agree that recovery runs are highly beneficial during a sustained, long training period. But again, for all those who posted, "I don't have the time," I perfectly accept that is so. I am speaking only from the point of view of enhanced performance. Here is Daws on the subject: "Consistency is the glue that holds your workouts together. When the physical workload becomes regular and balanced, and when you commit to a realistic but tough schedule and then make yourself do it, there's an awesome feeling of inner purpose and confidence. You may be balancing on that thin edge between your limits and exhaustion, but after you accept and handle the workload, the excitement of discovering you can do what you set out to pushes back the limits of being the best you can possibly be. Emil Zatopek has said, "If I miss one day I can tell I am several seconds slower." Liquori says, "The first day you miss training, you begin a backward slide." Obviously, if exhaustion is about to set in, a rest is needed, but that's not what Zatopek and Liquori are getting at. While no one actually loses conditioning in one day, if you lose too many sessions, you not only develop a sloppy attitude, conditioning does not progress on schedule. Pianist Arthur Rubinstein made the point in admitting, "When I take a day off, I notice it. When I take two days off, the audience notices it." Again, I qualify the above to say I am not advocating this for masters runners who are busy with families and work for a living. I am saying it strictly from the point of view of developing excellence in running. Spareribs
                    This was the RD's response to my question re the distance: Originally the course was set up via wheeling the course. Since then, GPS has come about and we are still pretty close to the correct distance. As of right now, I do not believe we will be changing the course. We would probably have a hard time getting it exact since we need both the 50K and 30K to finish at the same point and they use the same course where we can. So I'm thinking my Garmin isn't that far off. . . . I guess they could have us do another loop around the parking lot to get the 1/4 mile in.

                    Leslie
                    Living and Running Behind the Redwood Curtain
                    -------------

                    Trail Runner Nation

                    Sally McCrae-Choose Strong

                    Bare Performance

                     

                      GPS is great technology. But the accuracy is dependent on many variables...the number of satellites that are locked on (this can change over the course of a few hours...maybe less), the location of the satellites in the sky, ...and a bunch of other stuff I don't quit understand. And variables being what they are, variable, you can expect variable data. While one can expect pretty darn good data from one of those relatively inexpensive gadgets, they are not exactly completely accurate.
                      Quit being so damn serious! When we change the way we look at things, the things we look at change. "Ya just gotta let it go." OM
                        Ribs, thanks for the thoughtful reply. I suppose if and when I get really serious about running again, I should consider running every day. I don't know if I will ever again reach the point where I am on the edge between my limits and exhaustion, but maybe. I had always thought one needed to run more than three miles to get any benefit out of it (or I should say for longer than say 25 minutes) but perhaps that is not the case. I know that I need to slow down on easy days but have a hard time with it. The treadmill may be the answer as it is easier to set the pace and stick with it. Meg

                        Once a runner . . .


                        King of PhotoShop

                          This was the RD's response to my question re the distance: Originally the course was set up via wheeling the course. Since then, GPS has come about and we are still pretty close to the correct distance. As of right now, I do not believe we will be changing the course. We would probably have a hard time getting it exact since we need both the 50K and 30K to finish at the same point and they use the same course where we can. Fatozzig, the RD has acknowledged that the course is not accurate, so you have a point. Had the course been certified, that is another matter, and you can determine that by asking for the record. It's clear from his response it is not certified. Had it been he can give you the registration detail. So that is what makes you rely on your Garmin and I take your point. But if the course is certified, my advice is never trust a Garmin for exact distance. It is rarely useful on a certified course, and because the certified course is more accurate than the Garmin, the Garmin has potential to confuse the runner. (In the past when this subject has come up, I have provided detail about scenarios that would confuse the runner, or not help the runner to make a better decision regarding pace.) Better is to race with a good watch that has a lap counter. Any of the Timex Ironman series watches are inexpensive and do a great job. Top runners use a watch for splits over a certified course. They do not use a Garmin. What use would it be? But for the rest of us, it is a good idea to learn before a race if the course is a certified distance or not. If it's certified, leave your Garmin at home. It provides inaccurate information, not the least of which is your pace, which is absurd. Same goes for people doing a track workout. The track is precise, so a good watch is a best instrument. I mention this only because there are often posts by people who question track distances vis a vis their Garmins! I did not mean to split hairs over this, but it is a good point for all of us to think about. I remember bap, a couple of years ago made a big point about how he ran Disney and his Garmin said he ran 26.2 plus a couple of tenths. I doubt I could convince him his Garmin stats were irrelevant and inaccurate. I am always surprised at the "but according to my Garmin" posts I see here on certified race courses. Now dismounting from my high horse and pontification, you have a legitimate question about your race course. They need to certify this distance for many reasons. And just to make sure you understand my respect for you as a runner, 30K is a heck of a distance and you did well. Spareribs
                            Nice discussion above about running schedules. I can only dream about having 7 days/week to run. I like what Daws says about consistency, Ribs, even though my own regime (I use that term lightly) isn't very consistent. Any-hoo, today, back on the 'mill: 8 miles at a "lets get this over with" OA pace of 7:48 m/m....it was a progression run that started at 8 m/m and ended at 6:45 m/m. Walt


                            MM#209 / JapanJoyful#803

                              zigalina - it might be interesting to ask about the 30K discrepancy on your ultra/trail board as, with the exception of a marathon here in the PNW on a rail-to-trails route, none of the trail runs around here even have mile markers and I don't know of any (even the rtr one) that claim to be so accurate so as to be comparable to other ultras elsewhere of the same distance. Thus, the RD once advised that a popular early-season five-miler was probably more like six-and-a-half miles. As a result, a regular finish line phenomenon around here is all the garminites comparing their various distances. It doesn't seem to matter though as most of us were just looking for some good exercise and the competitive runners only cared about their finishing times vs other runners in this race at this time.

                              "Enjoy yourself. Your younger days never come again." 100yo T. Igarashi to me in geta at top of Mt. Fuji (8/2/87)

                              dg.


                                {{{Tim}}} more butterfly hugs Tim! dg will be happy to know that it gets down to 46 degrees here at night, so I am breaking out the thick tights and knitted mittens!! 5 miles at the track. Aren't these workouts supposed to start feeling easier?
                                Shocked Shocked oh, Ilene, help is on the way. it should be there in about an hour.
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