http://triathlon.competitor.com/2010/01/gear-tech/nicole-deboom-discusses-skirtsports_6551

How many long-runs do you do?

- Depends on life. 1-2 week, usually.

How often, how long?

- 1-2 times a week, 4-12 hours each

Do you do race-specific long-runs?

- Usually (hilly trail runs)

Or do you just try to cover the distance on level terrain?

- No, I almost never do this. I run more by time than distance.  Living in the mountains means I can do 10 milers that take 90 minutes or 10 milers that take 5-6 hours.  Distance is a poor benchmark for comparison.

Do you do fast finish long-runs?

- No, they are very slow, start to finish.

Do you do regular long-runs, like say one every week-end, or one every 3 weeks - how often?

- Usually 1-2 per weekend.  Usually 1, but back-to-backs if time allows.

If you run a marathon+ length race once per month is it necessary/beneficial to do long-runs in between? 

- If I only did one marathon, I'd probably do more.  A 50k or 50mile...then it depends if there's any interesting run I want to do.

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Do you think the long-run is hard to recover from?

- Not if they are slow. If they are hard to recover from, you're doing them way too fast (IMHO).

Do you take day(s) off after the long-run in order to let your body recover.

- I run (or walk) 7 days a week, but I usually do a slow day or two after them. 

How does it impact your other training runs?

- It doesn't, it's the cornerstone of all my training actually.

Are you able to get any speed work or tempo runs in if you run long-runs every week end?

- Yeah.  I don't do much speedwork, but when I do, it's on a Tue, Wed, or Thur, so it works well.

Is part of your long-run a tempo run?

- Never. Ever.

Do you run marathon pace long-runs or slower?

- Significantly slower.  More like 50 or 100 mile pace.  It's time on feet, not pace, that counts.  Most ultrarunners run their long runs WAY too fast.

I read it all - awesome response; Thanks so much! I am busy busy busy - gone until Sunday; will respond then - gotta go!

This advice was handed down to me from a very close friend when I first started ultrarunning, so I really owe her the credit.  I think she's got it pretty dialed, based on her racing resume:

http://home.comcast.net/~stephanieehret/running_resume.html

It's funny to do a large group run with Steph.  She is, consistently, at the very back of the group all day long... going super slow but amazingly consistently.  Then she shows up at a race and beats everyone.  She swears it's the slow training.  I think it's her genes. :-)

Speed is something I lack a lot of.  This year I'm going to try to do more speedwork.  It's not something I enjoy doing, so I'm not good at sticking to it.  I'm not entirely sure the best way to go about.  Ex-local Dave Mackey does long tempo runs (~1 hour).  Other successful ultrarunners out here do more structured speedwork, some even on a track (which sounds utterly miserable). 

As far as running fast in races... hmmm... I guess it's all relative. I don't feel very fast, but I usually finish in the top 10% at 100 milers, and the top 25th percentile at 50 milers.  I never really feel *fast*, but I can keep a pretty consistent pace and still run at the end... even after 90 miles.  

I have to put the kids to bed, but I'll try to answer a bit more later.

Flower - For LRs, it truly is about time on feet rather than pace.  Very few of us are going to be one of those runners who can finish a 50k in 3 to 4 hrs, therefore, your body needs to get used to being out there and moving for those long periods of time.

Time on the feet, it is. I know, the 3-4 hrs bracket is not for me for a 50K. However, I still wouldn't mind getting a little faster over the long distances. I'm a novice but I did find that in my last and only completed 50K to date, it was great to discover that my body was quite good at moving - even after the marathon distance, when I went into uncharted territory, I discovered much to my surprise that my body could still run, not fast, not continuously, but with walk breaks in between - I kind of skipped along, sometimes running, sometimes walking - kind of skimming the surface. What I was most impressed with was actually that I was still holding up pretty well even though I had been out there for 7+ hours. I had never before done a single workout/run that had lasted that long.

It is my goal to run 12 hours when I do the Lynch's Wood trail run in April. I think it is better that I  make it a time goal, not a distance goal. If all goes VERY well, I will cover 50 miles in 12 hours, but it is not likely. 

Doing speed work once a week has definitely made a difference in my pace.  It's not a huge difference, but I can tell that I am getting faster, little by little.  However, personally, I don't recommend speed work more than once a week.  You can incorporate it into hill work by doing hill repeats.  For example:

 

5-Mile Run:

30 minute warm up

5-10 hill repeats (depending on the size of the hill and your endurance at this point)**

Finish run

 

**At the base of your chosen hill - run hard up it for 30 secs (if you can; do shorter times if you need to), gently jog or walk back down to starting place, repeat 5-10 times.

 

Also consider hill repeats just to work on cadence, form, and endurance.  No speed involved.  Try to keep your cadence at approximately 20 steps per minute.  When working on cadence a "step" is only counting either the left or right foot landing, 1st step - LEFT, right, 2nd Step - LEFT, right, etc.

 

If you do the speed hill repeats, that constitutes your hill repeats AND speed work for the week.

I have been doing a fair amount of "speed" work after the marathon on mid December. I do it mostly on the treadmill - I can control the pace and the time - no obstacles, no inclines etc. It is very similar to running track in my opinion. I use what has worked for me in the past, which is basically a gradual (running) wu in which I increase the pace by .1mph every minute until I reach my current tempo pace - this takes approximately 2 miles. After that I either stop to drink and get my HR and breathing under control or I keep running at tempo pace for as long as I feel good doing it. After this I may break up the rest of the run into miles (1600m) at tempo pace or 2miles at tempo pace, then a short drink/walk break. Sometimes I run it continuously until I reach 1 hr or approx 6 miles of total running. It is my goal to be able to run longer total time at tempo pace as I get fitter.  Sometimes I add some fast leg turnover strides at the end of the run - it can be 20 sec stride (close to all out sprint) followed by full active recovery (don't do another one until I feel like it) x 5-10 depending on how I feel and how much time I have. 

I love the above kind of fartlek/tempo type runs on the treadmill. It is fast and fun and the body feels good afterward. (OK, it is also hard to do - but I try to keep it fun by not making it too rigid).

Your suggestion to do hill work is also very good. People say hill work is speed work in disguise.

 

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So I need some help from you guys.  What are you eating on your LRs?  I'm having a terrible time with nausea and bloating.  I've been relying on bananas and potatoes, but (1) I'm sick of potatoes, and (2) Coach things the bananas are contributing to the bloating since they are absorbed more slowly into your system.  I can't do PBJ.  Peanut butter nauseates me even more so since my gall bladder was removed.  I've also been eating honey pretzel twists, bagel chips, Clif shot bloks, and brownie bites as treats.  I get sick of sweet stuff real quick.

 

Also, for your back-to-back LRs, what kind of foods are you eating and how often for your recovery eating?  My Sunday LRs after Saturday are getting hard - nausea again.

 

Any other suggestions re food would be most helpful.

I am not sure (I obviously don't have the experience that many others have) how to help you with this. I am assuming the nausea is a way for your body to communicate with you - it's telling you something, just like pain and other feedback from the body. What is it telling you? You are assuming that you can change it by eating something different that sits better with you. This is certainly possible and I hope you will figure out what works better for you. However, it may be telling you not to eat so much or as often or to eat more. Maybe it isn't the food - could it be too many or too few s-tabs or another imbalance? I know you are following a timed (very structured) system of amounts of calories, pints of drink etc. Perhaps you would do better if you left that system and went more by your guts - as in how do you feel; go by feel or intuition more. This does not mean that you should leave reason out or forget what you know about how much you should be eating/drinking but it may work better for you to trust your own judgment more. Your body is talking to you. 

Have you tried dried fruit for your long-runs? I ate dates, dried bananas and raisins when I did my 50K. 

You may have to look into the Glycemic index/load of the food you use. Both the potatoes and the bananas are very high glycemic foods. The Clif Shot Bloks consist of brown rice syrup which is a lower glycemic carrbohydrate - it gets absorbed more slowly and gradually which is good as it does not give you an insulin spike. I have read somewhere about different types of sugars and that the body absorbs them differently; I don't quite have a grip but it is apparently important what kind of sugar the carbohydrate provides. Is is glucose, fructose, lactose, etc etc etc

I wish I remembered which source this information comes from. Can someone help?

Chris - Unless it's really hot, I take 1 S-cap per 26-oz bottle of fluids.  I use Succeed Ultra and switch to Amino around Mile 18.

Flower - I'm going to try a little more dried fruit, although I have a bit of a worry re fiber content.

Part of my problem is I have a sensitive stomach in the first place, and I have a low tolerance for sweet and chocolate.  I'm going try the suggestion of turkey and avocado rollups or sandwiches, and perhaps take a thermos of chicken noodle soup to take a swig of once in awhile.  {sigh}  It's all a science experiment of one, isn't it?

I get sick of sweet stuff real quick

I hear ya!

I've also found that I get a severe taste for beer after awhile... it just sounds so refreshing!

So, at HUFF I had an NA beer at the ready. I defizzed it (or, it defizzed itself after decanting into a water bottle - be careful to give it a few burps to allow the pressure to escape) - ugh, flat, alcohol-free beer! Since it was a looped course that had me passing my car three times, I just left it in the trunk with the rest of my gear. Wound up grabbing a few swigs each loop as I rejiggered the rest of my stuff on the way through. It wasn't the beer of my dreams, but it was a nice change of taste.

I'm also considering trying V-8, but wonder whether it will be too thick - so, perhaps I'll water it down some.