2024 Advanced Training and Racing Thread (still competitive jerks) (Read 184 times)

    Finished with a 70 mile week, 8 weeks out from Eugene, and with a tuneup half next weekend. I’m not feeling super optimistic about things—I’ve been plagued with a variety of aches and pains, and my workout paces have been frustratingly erratic, when not downright slow. On the plus side, my first 20-miler of the cycle yesterday felt much better than expected. And I’m looking forward to the race regardless, because races are fun and sometimes you can surprise yourself. 

    Weekly for period: From: 02/26/2024 To 03/03/2024

    <caption>Weekly Grid</caption>
    Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
    in ft
    02/26 Morning Run w/strides 8.02 12.91 01:15:12 09:23 05:49 367
    02/27 Afternoon Run 10.04 16.15 01:28:07 08:47 05:27 466
    02/28 6 mile tempo fail 11.01 17.72 01:32:48 08:26 05:14 404
    02/29 Evening Run 5.51 8.86 00:48:42 08:50 05:30 299
    03/01 Morning Run 9.04 14.54 01:28:08 09:45 06:04 446
    03/02 Long Run 20.16 32.43 02:51:11 08:29 05:17 374
    03/03 Morning Run 6.75 10.86 01:00:44 09:00 05:36 243

    Totals: Time: 10:24:52 - 🦅Imperial: 70.52 mi - Metric: 113.47 km



      Vanilla week for me.  Little more miles and long run distance.  Only got in 1 moderate day.  No plyometrics, only 1 day lifting and it was light.  Signed up for (goal sub-20) 5k Mar 23, didn't look at the race course.  It's a repeat of the 2 mile I ran with my dad and my son, but just a different causeway.  So it's going to be out and back over a bridge, roughly 50% of the race will be climbing or descending the bridge.  I'd wager I probably won't be breaking 20.  Kind of annoying, should have checked it out first.  If it is a calm day, I'll still give it a try, but if it's windy, there is not much hope.


      My plan is to go very hard this week and hard next week.  Will stick to it and hope for good luck.  The PF in my foot is still pretty bad, but not any worse.

      Weekly for period: From: 02/26/2024 To 03/03/2024

      <caption>Weekly Grid</caption>
      Date mi Duration Avg/mi
      02/26 6.65 00:51:09 07:42
      02/27 5.14 00:44:19 08:37
      02/28 7.02 01:01:27 08:45
      02/29 8.62 01:13:13 08:30
      03/01 8.05 01:13:02 09:04
      03/02 8.04 01:09:59 08:37
      03/03 10.65 01:35:29 08:58

      Totals: Time: 07:48:40 - 🦅Imperial: 54.16 mi - Metric: 87.16 km


        Mark I love those last two run titles next to each other haha. We all know the feeling.


        Dave I'm happy to see that week from you. Nice. And great attitude.


        Fishy I forgot to respond to your remark on thinking about food during heavy training. Yeah I think about food non-stop. (Organic) Peanut butter and chocolate are among my top cravings. It's not uncommon for me to consume a jar of peanut butter in a week or less.


        mt79 Don't count yourself out just yet. Race day can sometimes give you a boost and you can surprise yourself. You still have time to improve your fitness, as I'm sure you will.


        My Week 


        Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
        in ft
        02/26 Morning Run 10.06 16.18 01:20:29 08:00 04:58 495
        02/27 Morning Run 10.53 16.95 01:24:28 08:01 04:59 728
        02/28 Morning Run 11.54 18.57 01:31:55 07:58 04:57 620
        02/29 warm up, 6 X 3 min hard / 3 min jog all at 3% incline, cool down 8.00 12.87 01:03:09 07:54 04:54 482
        03/01 Morning Run 9.04 14.55 01:12:04 07:58 04:57 459
        03/01 That run where I finally got a chance to double. 7.06 11.36 00:52:41 07:28 04:38 364
        03/02 Lunch Run 8.05 12.95 01:06:18 08:14 05:07 433
        03/03 Miles 8-13 at MP 18.05 29.04 02:05:50 06:58 04:20 184

        Totals: Time: 10:36:54 - 🦅Imperial: 82.32 mi - Metric: 132.46 km


        A nice recovery week after my race lol. My right soleus was sore Monday and Tuesday but it got better. Did my long run on the flat NCR trail (a rail trail where I did a marathon in November 2022). My marathon goal pace felt much more comfortable than on hilly roads. It also made me feel tempted to hop back into that race this year. I still have time to think about it. Also for whatever reason I have been making a ton of pee stops on my runs lately. Not sure what that's about. 



          A bit of a mileage increase this week and got rolling (relatively) on the long run which was flat and in ideal conditions.


            Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation ft
          26/02/2024 Afternoon Run 4.92 7.92 0:45:06 9:10 5:42 295
          27/02/2024 Morning Run 6.78 10.91 0:59:07 8:43 5:25 282
          28/02/2024 Morning Run 9.37 15.08 1:20:59 8:39 5:22 331
          28/02/2024 VMA Neighbours Night 2k 1.25 2.01 0:10:21 8:17 5:09 112
          29/02/2024 Morning Run 6.89 11.09 1:03:02 9:09 5:41 253
          2/03/2024 Morning Run 6.9 11.1 1:03:34 9:13 5:44 269
          3/03/2024 10 laps of Prinny 20.05 32.25 2:53:53 8:40 5:24 692
            Week 56 90 8:16:02     2234
            Year to Date Weekly 46 75 7:05     2545

          Next: Ballarat, April 28, Pacing 3:50

          Best: 5k 19:46 (Parkrun, 2016), 10k 40:37 (Track, 2022), Half 1:26:41 (2016), Full 3:00:23 (2021)


            Nice seeing these SOLID weeks rolling in.  Some consistent training going on here.


            Dave- glad to see the minor issues seem to be resoliving with some time left before your race.  You have such a solid level of consistent training you will be fine.  I don't need to tell you not try try to outrun your fitness as you have a great idea of where you'll be come race time.  Will you try to do a predictor workout of tune up race or just run by feel on race day?


            MT- great week. PF is an absolute bitch.  I got it after a summer of very little running BUT I later realized that I had either been barefoot or in super flat "boat shoes" all summer and the lack of arch support was the culprit.  I switched to wearing running shoes and birkenstock sandals with some arch support and it never returned....


            Merkle- You're speaking my language with the peanut butter.  Nutella is also a huge favorite and might be enjoyed by the spoonful on occasion   I pee more on my slower runs and especially when it is cooler and/or rainy/drizzle.  On runs with workouts I rarely have to stop.


            My week went according to plan.  Legs felt sruprisingly good all week.  3 x 2 at HMP workout waent really well.  The first set always feels way harder than it should then the next feel great.  I should know this by now but I'm still surprised every time it happens


            Weekly for period: From: 02/26/2024 To 03/03/2024

            <caption>Weekly Grid</caption>
            Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
            in ft
            02/26 treadmill recovery 7.50 12.07 01:02:00 08:16 05:08 0
            02/27 Lunch Run 11.15 17.94 01:20:20 07:12 04:29 207
            02/28 Morning Run 13.18 21.21 01:50:20 08:22 05:12 433
            02/29 Morning Run 13.16 21.17 01:48:11 08:13 05:07 476
            03/01 treamill 7.5 7.50 12.07 01:01:00 08:08 05:03 0
            03/02 Morning Run 7.64 12.29 00:57:43 07:33 04:42 436
            03/03 Morning Run 20.59 33.12 02:47:18 08:08 05:03 764

            Totals: Time: 10:46:52 - 🦅Imperial: 80.72 mi - Metric: 129.87 km

            5K 18:36 (2023), 10K 39:40 (2022), 1/2 1:24:37 (2023), full 2:58:36 (2015) 


              Not sure anyone was following the World Indoor Champs, but NZ's Geordie Beamish won gold in the 1500m with an insane kick over the last 150m (went from 6th to 1st over the last 200m or so).  I actually hope he runs the steeplechase at the Olympics as the 1500m field will be crazy deep but he's a great shot at a medal in the steeple on current form.


              Dave - as long as they're DIFFERENT aches and pains and not the same ones, that's OK!


              Steve - super annoying you've picked up another cold already. That's rough.


              mt79 - didn't pick up that you'd done a race with your dad and your son, that's awesome! 3 generations! I've done parkrun a couple times with my daughter and my father in law.  My dad was actually a runner back in the day but he's got a lung condition these days so not likely to get him out.


              mmerkle - it's not coffee that's causing the pee stops is it? I never have coffee before running for exactly that reason.  That's a beast of a "recovery" week.


              Marby - nice work. Also it's March so it's now winter sport season and we're not talking about cricket any more.


              Fishy - it is weird how that happens with workouts sometimes. Like the first effort is kind of a warm up and then you feel good for the second one.  My coach always used to trick me into running 400m/800m repeats faster by chucking some 200s in the middle.

              3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

              10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

              * Net downhill course

              Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48

              Up next: Runway5, 4 May

              "CONSISTENCY IS KING"


              Are we there, yet?

                Not sure anyone was following the World Indoor Champs, but NZ's Geordie Beamish won gold in the 1500m with an insane kick over the last 150m (went from 6th to 1st over the last 200m or so).  I actually hope he runs the steeplechase at the Olympics as the 1500m field will be crazy deep but he's a great shot at a medal in the steeple on current form.



                12.78 for his last 100m, 26.11 for his last 200m.  He was 7th with 200m to go, 6th with 100m to go.

                Results including splits every 100m

                 2024 Races:

                      03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

                      05/11 - D3 50K
                      05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour

                      06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.






                  Couldn’t see a video from yesterday, but did find a cool video of last year’s Penn Relays… Beamish seems to imagine, live and breathe that kick for every race: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35pc1HA7OsM 


                  CK, I get distracted from a lot of things by work, but I knew something was wrong about that formulation, ha ha. Also, seems like you’re building the fitness for something, but you’re right… it may not be a 5k (though at this point, probably a few weeks of focussed training could sharpen from where you’re feeling now?) Also, sorry to read about the tweak! But what makes you say it’s not running or weight training related? Hope it didn't stick around. 


                  Darkwave, thanks for the “metabolic concepts” article. That was quite enlightening. I think I knew bits and pieces of why it hurt more to run/walk with too-fast intensity, but putting those pieces together, it makes a lot of sense. It didn’t stop me from run/walking during the race on Saturday, but I have been more steady in my other runs. And I agree with mmerkle that the arm-to-leg following is a revelation all runners can benefit from. My high school cross country coach showed us form videos, and that was a major takeaway from that for me at the time. Unfortunately, I have defaulted to “whatever feels natural” must work. But when I find my form sagging, I go back to a focussed positioning of my arms to get my legs to do the right thing. 

                  Do you get a designated support runner, or do you get to name someone? 


                  Mark, I’m always amazed at how it’s possible to do well in a workout that seemed impossible on paper. I guess something kicks in at the right time, and it just supports the “trust the training.” I forgot, but do you have a coach? 

                  Also, you’re going to get the race weekend started next weekend. Good luck! 


                  Steve, your sub-1:30 half training run is super impressive. And holding onto pace like you did, despite the heat, is the equivalent of a negative split on a cool day. If only you didn’t get sick before your big races!! But I think it’s far enough away to not have a major impact on your race. 

                  And re salt… well, I guess yeah, you do need to make sure you replace it!


                  Mmerkle, that was an awesome 10 miles. I’d think the improvement from last year should be encouraging, especially since you are also dealing with some injuries (which one cannot underestimate the mental weight of). Hope the IT band has been feeling better. 


                  Re: Weather, yeah. It’s back in the 70s in the AM here and I have my air con on again. I hate it. 

                  Lol prematurely getting excited for spring/fall.


                  Mt, thanks for sharing about your PF… yeah, okay, then it does sound like that’s the injury. I hope you can get to your 5K race without too much pain! I agree with the plan of taking off to let it recover… time off from running doesn’t mean time off from getting to be a better runner (I tell myself this as the opposite mentality is what got me into my mess in the first place). My doctor seems to be in the 75% who want you to just rest and recover… and then when I told her how proud I was of taking a full 10 days off, no running, she realized who she was dealing with and changed her tune. But not pumping anything into my system—I’m smart enough to know when it’s a lost cause. Great average pace progression! 

                  And hey, don’t fall into the comparison trap. There’s no point in comparing yourself to your 9-year-old or 9-years-younger self. That was a different person. Evaluate yourself on who you are now (or, as Fishy said, a year ago), and you can be pretty pleased with those 6:0x paces. As long as you don’t wake up one morning with a sac of fluid in the sole of your foot (yep, that happened to me after running through PF 10 months), then you’ll get to that starting line. I think you should plan to run the race, since it’s probably mentally better for going sub-20 than in a solo time trial. 


                  Fishy, nice pyramid workout! And god mental boost, but you know the treadmill kind of screws your times, right  And running fasted (especially if you’re also lifting afterwards), it makes sense you’re always thinking about food.  Sorry you have to interrupt your great training with your race in a few weeks, but at least you’ll get to see what you’re capable of again! 


                  Matt, I agree about sunshine. Our bodies are programmed to appreciate the sun. Heat? Not so much. But give me a sunshiney run any day (as long as I can have a hat and some sunglasses… and sunblock). But, as Marby wrote, it is also a recipe for disaster for overheating. 


                  Wcrunner, the article comes out on the 8th! I’ll post a link then :-) Just a heads up, though… it’s about their memoirs, not objectively about them. I also had a lot more to say than I had room for. All the best for your race this weekend! I think even with a lot of walking, the 20 miles seems more than doable. Hope you get a cold spell… it’s been unpredictable indeed this winter. 


                  Andy, I don’t know about fiber and protein, but I know fiber helps offset fat, and you definitely want to get good amounts if you’re eating meat. The vitamins and minerals in those greens will help with inflammation post workouts as well. Great story of your son. True grit! 


                  Krash, Badwater was the first ultra I ever heard of! Probably because people come to Florida to train for that (and then rue the lack of hills). Enjoy (ha!) the taper!


                  Also re ultra meetup… if we’re opening up to more racers, I’d be willing to travel for a 50K +!  Just give me a year; I think someone ( Flavio) gently is dropping hints about lining up any more races before I’m healed. Also, Flavio, congrats to your and your wife on your squat PRs. Really impressive what she can do! Though a shame she can’t open jars…(kidding!) That post is a math problem waiting to be written: If F weighs x pounds and can lift 1.36 his body weight, and DW can lift F’s weight, which is 1.5 her weight, how much does DW weigh? 🤓


                  Great to see you again, Dave! Good luck at your tuneup half. And great optimism about Eugene. That’s the kind of energy I’m going to try and emulate. 


                  Also, sounds like NYC may be a fun forum encounter possibility, especially if you do get in, Steve. 


                  Mmerkle, and everyone, thanks for the nice notes. Yeah, I’m less bouncing back and more steadily pushing limits to allow for adaptation before moving to the next level. It seems really slow, but I’m moving in the right direction, I think. I complete run/walk intervals as often as feels wise, slowly increasing the run intervals, and I meet the rest of the prescribed marathon training plan workouts with a combination of elliptical, cross trainer, pool running or swimming. I’ve stayed off the bike since I did my last longer ride. I think it would probably be fine, but the mind plays powerful tricks when it comes to injury… I am struggling with knowing the difference between pain and discomfort. I saw the doctor again last week, and she said that at this point, I might as well just prepare and run the marathon, and then be prepared to take time off afterwards. She doesn’t think a rupture is a threat, but she did say to listen to my body. So I’m trying. After a sore calf and achilles 8 days ago, I found that just pedaling backwards on the elliptical seems to have undone a knot in there. So now I do that on top of the heel raises, other PT exercises, stretches, and regular icing. 


                  Progression: run/walk miles: 


                  2/26/2024 – 3/3/2024:

                  26.8 mi


                  2/19/2024 – 2/25/2024:

                  19.8 mi


                  2/12/2024 – 2/18/2024:

                  12.2 mi


                  2/5/2024 – 2/11/2024:

                  1.6 mi


                  1/29/2024 – 2/4/2024:

                  0.0 mi



                  Time spent (in hours) on all exercises last 3 weeks: 9:37, 11:28, 9:35. I’m putting in the same amount of time as I do in normal marathon training. As stated last time, I can only hope that it’s good for something (though I know there are formulas out there about needing more time to equate the running. Whatever. There’s only so much time in the day). 

                  Also as mentioned, I ran the Community 5K with the plan to run 6 minutes, walk 1. I dropped that plan after 2 sets as it became annoying to let the same people pass me and pass them again each interval. I also felt like I could handle the last stretch (about 1.2 miles) without stopping. It felt good to push hard again, even if I did almost throw up 50m from the finish. 

                  Qualifications: I like to run. In Florida. In the summer. At noon.  

                  Last race: Community 5K, March 2nd. Speed test run with 2 walk breaks. Went pretty well.  


                  Cobra Commander Keen

                    Mark - Best of luck staying healthy with that around the house.

                    Steve - Bummer about the second sickness. That hit me, too, not long ago but hopefully we both stay healthy going forward.

                    Dave - Nice week, and good luck at the upcoming half.

                    Merkle - Yeah, that's a pretty good week for "recovery".

                    Fishy - Very nice week. Full agreement, the first set is almost always the toughest.

                    DKT - I don't think it's running or lifting-related because those things aren't bothered by it (running actually seems to help) and it didn't crop up in proximity to either a run or a lifting session. In any case, I'm deloading some on the weights "out of an abundance of caution". It is getting better, though.
                    Steadily pushing back definitely seems like you're moving in the right direction!


                    Ultra showdown - The more the merrier! Ok, so we're looking for something with a smooth running surface, perhaps no preference for elevation change. Anything from track to rolling back country hills or California-style carpet trail. Definite preference for hula girls. Any objection to me wearing a hula skirt? I certainly think I have the legs for it.

                    I'm pretty happy with this week, though I did (as mentioned above) cut out a couple days of lifts and the day I did lift I backed out on the weights.
                    I did sign up to pace a couple local-ish half marathons the last two Sundays of the month, so that should be fun and hopefully a couple good workouts, too.


                    Weekly for period: From: 02/26/2024 To 03/03/2024

                    <caption>Weekly Grid</caption>
                    Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                    in ft
                    02/26 7 x mile M 11.66 18.76 01:27:08 07:28 04:39 358
                    02/26 More heat points in February. 5.06 8.13 00:44:11 08:44 05:26 276
                    02/27 7 rabbits 9.00 14.49 01:20:29 08:57 05:33 354
                    02/28 10 x 800 11.84 19.05 01:24:57 07:10 04:28 0
                    02/28 Afternoon Weight Training 0.00 0.00 01:02:52 00:00 00:00 0
                    02/28 6 ducks 4.10 6.60 00:36:50 08:59 05:35 190
                    02/29 11 turkeys 9.06 14.57 01:22:29 09:06 05:40 338
                    03/01 2 rabbits 10.00 16.09 01:23:51 08:23 05:13 423
                    03/01 2 rabbits 4.10 6.60 00:38:50 09:28 05:53 144
                    03/02 8 rabbits 5.00 8.05 00:45:28 09:06 05:39 184
                    03/03 8E, 5M, 2E 15.01 24.15 01:52:57 07:31 04:41 778

                    Totals: Time: 12:40:02 - 🦅Imperial: 84.83 mi - Metric: 136.49 km

                    5k: 17:58 11/22 â”‚ 10k: 37:55 9/21 â”‚ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 â”‚ M: 2:56:05 12/22


                    Upcoming Races:


                    OKC Memorial 5k - April 27

                    Bun Run 5k - May 4



                    Are we there, yet?

                      Couldn’t see a video from yesterday, but did find a cool video of last year’s Penn Relays… Beamish seems to imagine, live and breathe that kick for every race: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35pc1HA7OsM 



                      This shows the entire race

                       2024 Races:

                            03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

                            05/11 - D3 50K
                            05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour

                            06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.




                        Damn it still can't view that vid in NZ I need one of those VPN things. I love those late Geordie finishes.

                        I think he's got a shot at a bronze in the steeple.

                        Quite a few missing from the 1500 like Jacob, Josh Kerr, and Wightman etc but nonetheless a great race to win.

                        55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT

                        " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

                        Somewhere in between is about right "      



                        Are we there, yet?

                          Finished my last hard week before my race including
                          Monday: 3 x 900m at LT effort
                          Friday: 9 miles hard effort
                          Those workouts took more out of me than expected, so I took an extra rest day and then started my taper.

                          Totals for the week 29.8 miles / 48 km


                          Weather forecast is not to my liking, high of 46F / 8C with a 50% chance of rain.  Unlike many, I prefer slightly warmer temperatures and I could do without the rain.

                           2024 Races:

                                03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

                                05/11 - D3 50K
                                05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour

                                06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.





                          Mother of Cats

                            Belatedly checking in with my week and a race report:


                            53 miles of running:

                            M:  8 miles very easy (9:20) and strides, followed by upperbody weights/core.

                            T: 9.5 miles, including a track workout of 1600, 4x800, 400 in 7:05, 3:26, 3:23, 3:18, 3:16, and 96.  5:14 recovery after the 1600 and recoveries of 2:4x-3:2x after the 800s.  Sports massage in evening.
                            W: Upperbody weights/core and 7.5 miles very easy (9:24) plus strides.  

                            Th: 5 miles very easy on trails (10:27); streaming pilates in evening.

                            F: 7 miles, including an uptempo 1600 (7:10) plus 2x200m in 51 and 51.  

                            Sa: Off except for DIY yoga.

                            Su:  3 mile warm-up and then a half-marathon in 1:34:11.   


                            Race report: Well, I'm TRYING to run...: Race Report: One City Half-Marathon, March 3, 2024 (wellimtryingtorun.blogspot.com)

                            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.


                            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                            Pain is my friend

                              Not much to report from last week. Took a back off week. I planed to run more miles but work was way to busy. Finished up with 53 miles. 8 days till race day. Legs feel more tired than I did running 80+ miles a week. Not a fan of tapering. Don't get me wrong. I love to get more sleep but fell more tired. Don't get me started on phantom pains.

                              ATY 24   141.445 2019 1st

                              Bear 100 22:08 2021 

                              Jackpot 100 Feb 14:59 - 5th


                              Pulse endurance 48 hr 175.3 miles

                              Bonnevile Backyard ultra 

                              Ute 100 Aug

                              24 hour loop race?


                                Poll question for the group: do you fuel/hydrate during half marathons? I didn’t used to, unless it was very warm. But at some point I can’t remember when or why, I started taking a gel and cup of water around the halfway point. My half this weekend is “cupless.” I don’t really want to run with a handheld bottle, or run with a cup that I stop for them to fill. But my gels are Gu which really needs to be washed down with some water. So I’m thinking of just taking nothing. Weather will be cool, around 40F at the start, so I’m sure I’ll be fine, but wondering if I’ll be missing out on an energy boost. I’m sure I’d manage if I had to deal with one of the water options. Thoughts?