RunningAHEAD - Topic: PR Question

posted: 1/16/2009 at 12:05 PM

Or maybe it's more of a rant. I want to be clear that I am not criticizing this site in particular as I have yet to see a site that does not approach PRs in exactly the same way. I am merely using this site as a common ground example of a mindset that I do not understand. So here is my question. I do not race. I never have raced. I probably never will race. Nonetheless I run consistently. I work on my pace and I enjoy getting faster. I map my routes meticulously and I always map the best possible tangent ( which I seldom run ) and I always map them about 100 meters long. I have seen my best 5k time drop from somewhere in the mid 40 minutes range to 28:18. 28:18 is the fastest I have ever run 5 kilometers. It is, by definition, my personal record. Yet, if I go out tomorrow and run a 5k in 27:00 the only way that I can log that in a way so that I see 27:00 as my personal record is to log it as a race. Why? Last year it didn't really bother me to do this but I am taking a much more mindful approach to my running this year and would like to be able to log a run by the type it was so that I can generate reports properly rather than taking various runs and putting them under a mythical race category. I get the desire for competition. Believe me, I get it. But let's be honest here, your placing in the field of a race is a reflection of your performance versus others. Your personal record is a reflection of your performance versus yourself. It defies logic to say that if one never enters a race then one cannot have a PR. Yeah, I know I could post something on the suggestions board and Eric could slip in either a "include in PR" box on normal runs or allow for manual entry of PR times without logging the run at all. I'm more trying to understand the mindset than I am to affect change on a particular site.

And who am I anyway?
Just another fat jogger, evidently.

mikeymike

posted: 1/16/2009 at 12:32 PM

I don't get it. Just log a run as a race if you want it to "show up" as your PR. If you weren't racing then how can it really be a PR? To me it defies logic to say you can have a PR in something other than a race. If you were trying to run the fastest time possible you were racing, whether you want to admit it or not. Also RA is not the sole arbiter of what is and is not a PR. I have PR's that are not listed and in at least a couple of cases my PR's for certain distances are different from the ones listed. If you want to see the fastest time you've run for a particular course just run a report for all runs on that course and sort by time. If you want PR's, run races.

Runners run

milktruck

an amazing likeness

posted: 1/16/2009 at 12:34 PM

Interesting. Perhaps I could reflect back a few points / questions in response to your rant -- these are not being proposed as solutions. I think you are hemmed in by your own ideas, not how the software works. An example -- I have this thing...if I stop and walk during a run, I always classify that as a "walk" in the log I use. For some unknown reason, without any logic, I decided that if I walked at any point that it couldn't be classified as a "run". It makes no sense, and I laugh at myself about it. Over time I've had to ask myself all sorts of arbitrary things, like -- what if you stop and re-tie your shoe, is that walking? Just writing this down makes me cringe....But anyway, it all because of some idea or parameter or definition that I imposed on myself. I could easily change it, at any time, in any way I wish. If you run everyday against the clock, there's no reason you couldn't call each of those runs a "race" -- you are racing the clock after all (insert pink floyd tunes here). I'll be some days you have different objectives and you could choose to categorize those runs differently and call your "balls out" runs races to see your PR progressions. In my example, I have many events in my logs where I walked 8 feet out of a run that is over 10 miles, and that stupid event is logged as freakin walk, because that's how I use the log. Arbitrary, stupid rule....I think I'll change that. Maybe.

_{Acceptable at a dance, invaluable in a shipwreck.}

anutherfinemess

posted: 1/16/2009 at 12:46 PM

PR.... Personal Record. My Personal Record is the fastest that I have ever run a given distance, is it not? For you to say that because I did not enter a race I don't have a PR defies all logic. Regardless of whether I was running alone or among a group of others I covered 5k in 28:18. That is my fastest time at that distance. Therefore that is my PR. I do agree with you, Mikey, that I was "racing" when I ran that 28:18. I do race against myself and even to some degree plan which days I will do this. But I also structure those "races" in a way that I would prefer to log them as the type of run they were rather than a catch all "race". Again, it's not the logging that bothers me that much. It's an annoyance but no big deal. I just don't understand that mindset. I think of it this way. My PR in a bench press is 405 for 3 reps. That is my PR. If you've spent any time at all in a gym you probably know what yours is too. Have I ever entered a bench press competition? Of course not. But does that change the fact that I was able to knock out 405? How many pushups can you do in a minute? You probably know the answer to that one too. Let's say it's 65. Does that mean you can do 65 every day? Probably not. But it is your personal record. Would I insist that you enter a pushup competition in order to make that claim? Of course not. Why? Because it doesn't matter. No one on this site is getting paid based on their PR at a given distance. Why on earth would anyone care? I don't care what your PR is at any distance. I don't care if it was set running alone or running in a group. I don't mean that in a negative way. If you break your PR I will celebrate you as part of a fraternity of runners. But I would celebrate that accomplishment regardless of where you ran it. Now, if you want to claim a world record, a local record, an age group record or whatever, then yes, there are parameters there that are based on competition. But a personal record? Who am I or anyone else to tell you that you have to enter a race? Just looking at your log it shows a 5k PR of 17:00. That's pretty damned awesome, by the way. But if you go out tomorrow and bang out 16:45 then 16:45 is, by definition, your personal record. It is the fastest you've ever run 5k.

And who am I anyway?
Just another fat jogger, evidently.

anutherfinemess

posted: 1/16/2009 at 12:55 PM

Milk.... I kind of see where you are going and you are correct as it pertains to the logging. I kind of wish I had not mentioned logging at all in my original post as I was trying to understand the mindset more than the logging mechanics. FWIW, if I have to walk then yeah, the whole thing is a walk. You're not alone there. I go even one step further. If I have to walk I am done. I don't allow myself to start running again no matter how badly I want to. Maybe this is all just semantics, I don't know. I'm just trying to understand the ideology that if one doesn't enter a race then one has no personal record. Like I said earlier, if you are claiming a prize or claiming a record that encompasses more than yourself then sure, parameters are required to ensure equality in comparison. But a personal record? I find it kind of odd that someone would invest in another person's PR to the extent of trying to define it beyond the obvious definition of time and distance.

And who am I anyway?
Just another fat jogger, evidently.

Slo

posted: 1/16/2009 at 1:00 PM
modified: 1/16/2009 at 1:01 PM

Just hopping in here with a quick thought........and I don't think I'm that much different than most. I could never get to any of my PR's UNLESS I was racing. That's what it takes to get top performace from me. I can push myself much harder when someone is on my heels trying to take a finishing spot from me. There are better ways of mapping your forward progress and fitness as a runner than PR's. I'm probably a more fit runner today than I was in my 20's but I can't touch my 5k PR from my 20's.

mikeymike

posted: 1/16/2009 at 1:05 PM

I don't see anyone trying to define anyone elses PR's. The definition being used by the PR calculator that Eric includes for convenience is the most obvious one.

Runners run

milktruck

an amazing likeness

posted: 1/16/2009 at 1:11 PM
modified: 1/16/2009 at 1:17 PM

PRs being focused on races probably evolved from races having accurate time / distance stats. It is only recently that we all starting running with GPS data loggers and wearing jet packs to commute. Before, races are where you knew there was an accurate time and accurate distance. There's no "rule" that only a race time can be your PR. Sounds like you're sticking point is that the RA log doesn't call your fastest time a PR unless you categorize the run as a 'Race' when you log it. You can fight the software, or become one with it...the solution is in your hands.

_{Acceptable at a dance, invaluable in a shipwreck.}

Jeff

Why is it sideways?

posted: 1/16/2009 at 1:28 PM
modified: 1/16/2009 at 1:29 PM

There has to be a way of sorting out which runs ought to count for PR's and which won't. Otherwise every single distance you ever ran would be listed under your PR's: 2.3 miles, 2.4 miles, 3.4 miles, 3.6 miles... etc. even if you did not give your best effort. Since most of us call giving our best effort "racing", the log automatically chooses only races to count as PR's.

slimbo

posted: 1/16/2009 at 1:36 PM
modified: 1/16/2009 at 1:36 PM

and the GPS "distances" can be off quite a bit depending on a number of factors. Wear it on the track and find out how accurate it is or isn't

2012= under-goaled

Matt2112

posted: 1/16/2009 at 1:42 PM

I'll admit I didn't read everything here very closely, so if I repeat a suggestion, I apologize in advance. Why not create a run acctivity called "Course PR." You can designate the color so ti pops on your charts and use it anytime you set a new PR on any run. You could probably track that separate on other reports as well.

Chris UK

posted: 1/16/2009 at 1:54 PM
modified: 1/16/2009 at 1:56 PM

..and even simpler. Go into Options - click on Race and change it to PR or whatever else you want to call it. Your fastest PR runs for any given distance will be listed (unsurprisingly) in the Personal Records section unless you tick the "exclude from PR" box. Sorted. Wink

2013

3000 miles

Sub 19:00 for 5K 05-03-13 Clee Prom 5K - 19:00:66 that was bloody close!

Sub-40:00 for 10K 17-03-13 Gainsborough 10K - 39:43

Sub 88:00 for HM

MrH

posted: 1/16/2009 at 1:59 PM

Quote from Chris UK on 1/16/2009 at 1:54 PM:

..and even simpler. Go into Options - click on Race and change it to PR or whatever else you want to call it. Your fastest PR runs for any given distance will be listed (unsurprisingly) in the Personal Records section unless you tick the "exclude from PR" box. Sorted.

If only it was that easy.

The process is the goal.

Men heap together the mistakes of their lives, and create a monster they call Destiny.

Chris UK

posted: 1/16/2009 at 2:01 PM
modified: 1/16/2009 at 2:05 PM

Quote from MrH on 1/16/2009 at 1:59 PM:

If only it was that easy.

It is - I did test drive it first. Tongue

MTA - check my log I just broke the world record for 9.25 miles. (to be removed later)

2013

3000 miles

Sub 19:00 for 5K 05-03-13 Clee Prom 5K - 19:00:66 that was bloody close!

Sub-40:00 for 10K 17-03-13 Gainsborough 10K - 39:43

Sub 88:00 for HM

jEfFgObLuE

I've got a fever...

posted: 1/16/2009 at 2:03 PM
modified: 1/16/2009 at 2:04 PM

Quote from mikeymike on 1/16/2009 at 12:32 PM:

Just log a run as a race if you want it to "show up" as your PR.

If you never plan to race, then there's no problem calling your efforts "race" in the log -- it's not like you'll be confused. There, my friend, is your answer. If you don't run races, just rationalize it by saying that you were racing against yourself. One of my PRs (1600m) wasn't in a race. I just went up to the track thinking, "I'm gonna run a friggin' mile as fast I I can." Not a race per se, but it was 5 seconds faster than I'd ever run it before. Good enough for me. One question, anutherfinemess -- on your PR's, are they all-out efforts? Because regardless of venue, a PR should really be the fastest you've ever run a given distance, going all-out. And my example notwithstanding, you're almost always gonna run faster in a race than in any solo run. Racing is the best way to see how fast you really are, regardless of you perform against the field.

On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office. But you will wish that you'd spent more time running. Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

PR Question (Read 1491 times)