Forums >Racing>2018 3:20 (and beyond)
Oregon - I had a good stretch of some ~40-mile weeks training for my last race and even topped out at close to 49 (mostly due to moving a long run from a Sunday to a Monday ) but the average for the cycle was a pretty sad 33 miles. So if I max out at 50 and average 45 I figure that will be enough of a stretch for me. I'm always willing to listen if people think I can ramp up to more during my first 12 weeks and then keep it for the 18-week cycle.
And as far as focus goes, I will try to mix it up with shorter races here and there, with no particular taper for those. But it might help keep it interesting. And my plan is to supplement with some bike rides, swimming, and strength training as well, especially during the first period.
5k: 20:32 (1/17) | HM: 1:34:37 (2/18) | FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)
Getting back into it
pie man
Oregon - the original course started on 33rd then went northeast up loch raven Blvd to actual loch raven. On the way back there was satyr hill road around mile 18 which is about 250 feet in just a smudge over half a mile. Bill Rodgers ran 2:09 in Massachusetts then ran 2:14 here the next year.
edit: used the B word. Sh*t.
11:11 3,000 (recent)
Mother of Cats
Darkwave - Nice mileage again! With that type of mileage, is the "pool running" now just done for recovery? It seems like you wouldn't have to do it since you can log 50-60 miles a week.
Combination of adding miles and recovery. I can handle more mileage on land without getting injured, but I don't race as well - I end up accumulating too much fatigue to shake off during taper. I've discovered that for me, the more "impressive" the training cycle, in terms of workout paces and mileage, the worse I race. So I do less impressive stuff like pool-running
Interesting stuff on the history of marathon performances. I wonder if some of the drop off is also the result of more people finding escape in video games and the internet, as opposed to running. I can totally see how those that were drawn to one in the past would now find the other appealing.
10 miles yesterday. 3 miles warm-up (9:11), then 400/800/2x1200/800/400 in 88, 2:56, 4:28, 4:24, 2:51, 83. 3.5. 2.5 miles cooldown (9:22). Also light injury prevention work and recovery swimming.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
I can handle more mileage on land without getting injured, but I don't race as well - I end up accumulating too much fatigue to shake off during taper. I've discovered that for me, the more "impressive" the training cycle, in terms of workout paces and mileage, the worse I race.
^^^Wisdom^^^
Finding that sweet spot is the hardest part of training/coaching.
PJ ~ I'm not sure you can do a direct comparison of BR's Boston vs Baltimore times; he did a lot of "B" (no pun intended) races, similar to how Canova's athletes do those 40KM really hard efforts nowadays. That notwithstanding, the Baltimore course is easily a few minutes slower.
my buddy did the old course for his birthday several years ago and he didn't strava then, but here's the upper bit from someone else who joined about 6 miles up the course:
https://www.strava.com/activities/315622222
evil.
It's the differences that make life so interesting. For quite a few years I had a pretty much direct correlation between miles and race performance. Tired? Yep. A little beat up? Sure. Slower overall pace and some shaky workouts? Definitely. But miles predicted PRs. Sad, really.
Today, it's like a new puzzle to figure out. Way fewer miles, but better quality.
I'm enjoying the tales from earlier running times. Things sure have changed. Like a lot of other sports, hasn't the influx of money changed the dynamic. But I'm not really clear what's going on with U.S. runners. Are U.S. men running fewer sub 2:20s today compared with the past? Does that mean that our talented athletes are doing something else?
Go Pesto Go!
m: 2:55:04 | 10k: 37:14 | 50mile: 9:35
Resident Millennial
It's the differences that make life so interesting. For quite a few years I had a pretty much direct correlation between miles and race performance. Tired? Yep. A little beat up? Sure. Slower overall pace and some shaky workouts? Definitely. But miles predicted PRs. Sad, really. Today, it's like a new puzzle to figure out. Way fewer miles, but better quality.
I like this! I think until two years ago I was very much trying to do as many miles as i could, workouts as hard as possible, etc all just under the line of getting injured. It takes awhile (I've been running for 11 years), but I think I'm finally starting to understand what gets me in shape. At least for the shorter things. Marathons .... well, they're still a black box to me!
I'm enjoying the tales from earlier running times. Things sure have changed. Like a lot of other sports, hasn't the influx of money changed the dynamic.
Yeah, same!! I've read some of the history of our sport through the twentieth century but there are still some missing links in my mind of when things changed from "amateur" to "pro", and especially rules at the Olympics in the beginning of the (modern) games that it had to be all amateur athletes. I don't quite understand how that transition went, but I think that too really changed a lot.
_________________________________________________mile, 5:26 /5k, 19:34 /10k, 41:00 /13.1, 1:31:49 /26.2, 3:12:58
Interesting thoughts on history of running and the ever evolving response to training cycles. I do think it's difficult to look at one race decades apart as you miss the moves and trends to or from other race distances and sites.
It's tough to learn exactly how to respond or adjust to training cycles without consistency. That's something I need to work on when healthy.
DW: I'm planning 2 "longer" pool runs this weekend. Any suggestions on workouts. One will probable be about an hour and one 90+ minutes.
Continuing with PT, elliptical and bike for now. Yesterday they "needled" me. Basically deeper acupuncture needles into muscle bodies and tendons attached to some electric current. Not exactly comfortable, but afterwards it was the best I've felt since the marathon. Hopefully we'll keep improving. Trying to tell myself there's no rush (although I'd love to set some PRs soon).
Brew: you lurking out there? haven't heard from you in a while.
How is everyone's taper madness going?
Road Mile: 5:19 (2017), 5k: 17:09 (2021), 10k: 35:54 (2021), HM: 1:21:55 (2020), M: 2:53:18 (2021)
I think I'm finally starting to understand what gets me in shape.
Sorry to burst your bubble, that recipe keeps changing!
This!! One of my friends and I were talking about this very thing this morning after running a tempo. Every year it seems like I need to adjust, and what worked once doesn't work the next time. Today I learned that I really, really need more than a mile warmup before a tempo run -- which I knew, but thought I could kind of fake my way through it for the first mile and catch up on the second. Nope. Definitely need a longer warmup, even for tempo runs. But that's part of what I like so much about running - it's a constant challenge to see what works, what doesn't, what I can do better, and how my body responds.
pepperjack: UP to Loch Raven? Yikes. That's not nice. I liked the last few miles when I ran it, which went down St. Paul through Charles Village (if I'm remembering correctly) then down through the stadiums. That was fun.
That amateur/pro line really transitioned in 1970s, maybe early 80s. Pre famously fought the AAU about accepting any form of compensation, while officials were living the high life. Guys like Shorter (who has a law degree) and Rodgers pushed the envelope (I guess literally in some cases) and started accepting appearance money and with their apparel lines. Then prize money began in early 80s.
Rodgers talks about some in his book and some in one of the Pre movies (maybe both).
Every year it seems like I need to adjust, and what worked once doesn't work the next time.
I've noticed a dramatic change in last two years (I'm 54). What I'm learning is that I need focused strength and mobility work for my ankles/calves -- older runners lose power there quickly -- and, related but not quite the same, distance runners must sprint (as in all-out, waaay faster than mile pace).
But learning is part of the fun!
FWIW, my typical warm-up is 30 minutes.
Pace Prophet
I've noticed a dramatic change in last two years (I'm 54). What I'm learning is that I need focused strength and mobility work for my ankles/calves -- older runners lose power there quickly -- and, related but not quite the same, distance runners must sprint (as in all-out, waaay faster than mile pace). But learning is part of the fun! FWIW, my typical warm-up is 30 minutes.
I've also noticed a dramatic change. Menopause hit me like a ton of bricks. Trying to come back from the stress fracture (which was partly due to menopausal changes in bone density) has been a very long process and I've mostly come to terms with the unhappy truth that I will never be as strong or as fast as I was five years ago.
https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/09/09/why-runners-get-slower-with-age-and-how-strength-training-may-help/
"Meanwhile, runners older than about 40 displayed much less activation of and power in the muscles of their lower legs, especially those around the ankle and in the calf."
I haven't noticed a dramatic difference, more just gradual changes (I just turned 50). It is harder to sprint these days - I just don't seem to have the turnover I once did - which is probably why I need to do it more (and also probably why people my age and older stop doing it -- it's hard!)
Rlk - nice mile!! That's super fast!
DW - Interesting re: recovery/miles during taper. I personally really take advantage of the taper and how it makes me feel more energetic. It's seemed to have worked for me, though I've only really tried more miles/less taper once.
Ace - I kinda like tapers since I feel like I'm not as tired! But I may be weird like that.
Oregon - sounds like a nice vacation! And pretty typical, coming back to messes! At this point I feel like if I can still be running in my 50s I'll be happy
Re - age and fitness/changing. I've been lucky here, but I KNOW that I'm still young. I know I've said it a ton, but I really was pretty shocked at how short of a time it took to get back into PR shape after having a baby via C-section, and taking 2 years off racing for the whole thing, having had a weight variation of just over 40 lbs on a 5' frame in that time. I get that I'm a naturally athletic person, and that its probably genetic is pretty apparent watching my insane almost 2 year old, but the human body can be pretty amazing and part of this whole racing thing that I like is the improvement and seeing how far my body can go. One day I'll reach a point of diminishing returns, but for now I'd like to think I can improve until my early 40s perhaps.
So last week I ended up doing 37 miles, which seems about right for week 1 of taper. I ended up averaging about 40 miles this cycle, which is pretty standard, and due to the fact that I decided to train pretty late in the game. I was too busy to get a LR in last weekend, so I did it yesterday, actually running home from work. I apparently work almost exactly 14.3 miles from my office using local streets. Nice effect - during taper, average pace was 7:57 because fresh legs. It was nice. At the risk of sounding like I have the dumbest running injury., the bottom of my feet hurt again - like the skin on the balls of my feet.. I ended up getting deep blisters last cycle and I'm afraid they've come on again a bit. Also, I get blisters under my toenails and now they hurt, so I've just accepted that this race is going to hurt my feet, which is nothing new.
In other exciting and anxiety-provoking news, our house is going on the market like, tomorrow and we may purchase a new one so that'll be some fun and excitement!
PRs: HM: 1:32:59 (2015); FM: 3:18:36 (2017)