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Middle Age Max Heart Rate (Read 136 times)

     

    5K pace is roughly 98% of VO2Max.  That number is not likely to improve, so to improve one's 5K time, one would have to improve one's VO2Max.  Obviously this applies to runners who actual race hard and not those who stay within their comfort zone.

     

    Setting aside the fact that you and the OP don't run 5k's at anywhere near 98% of your VO2max, are you honestly arguing that improving VO2max is more important than LT for a 20+ minute 5k runner who wants to improve his 5k time?

    Runners run

    gsaun039


    Caffeine-fueled Runner

       

      Setting aside the fact that you and the OP don't run 5k's at anywhere near 98% of your VO2max, are you honestly arguing that improving VO2max is more important than LT for a 20+ minute 5k runner who wants to improve his 5k time?

      PR's--- 5K  24:11,   10K  49:40,   10-Mile  1:26:02,  HM  1:56:03,   Marathon  4:16:17

      Maniac #11112, Fanatic #14276, Double Agent #2335

      kcam


        Don't neglect the fact that Vo2max is directly related to body mass (units for Vo2max are mL per kg·min).  I would hazard a guess that improving Vo2max can be important for 5K improvement.  Maybe very important for us mortals with excess body fat since one way to improve Vo2max is to lose weight.

        gsaun039


        Caffeine-fueled Runner

           

          Setting aside the fact that you and the OP don't run 5k's at anywhere near 98% of your VO2max, are you honestly arguing that improving VO2max is more important than LT for a 20+ minute 5k runner who wants to improve his 5k time?

           

          Just a reminder that VO2max is not speed or even heart rate.  It's the oxygen processing rate.  One way to assess VO2 max (the method I typically use) is a continuous maximum 30-minute run.  It needs to be sustainable and as constant paced as can be managed.  If done correctly, it gives a good indication of the maximum heart rate, the lactate threshold heart rate and the VO2max.  The last 5 minutes can be quite challenging and it has the advantage of not "cutting off" at a fixed distance.  In my case, you can see the immediate increase in HR at the start and the slow and gradual climb in HR as the run continues.  Usually, there is a slight inflection of HR at 15-20 minutes into the run that can denote the approach of the LTHR.  Garmin (through Firstbeats) uses a progressive running pace to elevate the HR to determine the LTHR and VO2 max.

           

          As a personal observation, my wintertime HR max is higher than the summer value by as much as 10-15 BPM.  I hypothesize part of that has to do with cooling capacity.  But I have maxed out in the winter at 195-199 BPM.  Don't like my HR to be that high, though.

          PR's--- 5K  24:11,   10K  49:40,   10-Mile  1:26:02,  HM  1:56:03,   Marathon  4:16:17

          Maniac #11112, Fanatic #14276, Double Agent #2335

          wcrunner2


          Are we there, yet?

             

            Setting aside the fact that you and the OP don't run 5k's at anywhere near 98% of your VO2max, are you honestly arguing that improving VO2max is more important than LT for a 20+ minute 5k runner who wants to improve his 5k time?

             

            Assuming 25:00 as an average 5K time for open males, yes.  In my experience those running sub-25:00 will benefit more from focused VO2Max workouts than from LT workouts.

             2023 Races:

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              Did you kick at the end of your 5k and give it 100% at the finish??

               

              I've seen many race 5k's....and the pace for the entire race is the same...no kick...

               

              also personally I noticed my max HR during a 1 mile race went higher...like 195....vs 185ish for the kick of my 5k...

               

              I'd race a 1 mile and check...

               

              my guess is either way you're normal healthy.....but perhaps a few beats left in the tank...

              also I suspect training can increase your max HR...a few beats etc...but that's more if focused on VO2 max type workouts,

               

              good luck!

               

               

              PS as for heart rate zones....I think those formulas are good at suggesting where those lines should be...but perceived effort may help you find those exact heart rates better than a formula can...

               

              also on hot days etc....or random run days sometimes your effort will be more accurate than a watch/formula.

              300m- 37 sec.

              LRB


                 Shouldn't that be VO2Max rather than LT?  A 5K is run at faster than LT pace.

                 And at slower than VO2max. For most normals (not elite runners) the limiting factor at 5k is LT, not VO2max.

                 

                I saw my best results using a steady diet of both.

                 

                For VO2 max (usually run on Saturday) my bread and butter workouts were; 2 minutes hard, 1 min recovery, 1 min hard, 30 sec recovery, 30 secs hard, 30 sec recovery, repeating 4 - 6 times. That workout was alternated with 5 x 1000m with 3 minute recoveries.

                 

                For LT (run the following Tuesday) it was; 4 x 1200m with 2 min or 400 meter recoveries alternated with 3 miles ran at steady state. One could also do 1 mile repeats but I found 1200 meters to suffice.

                 

                About once every three weeks or so I would substitute one of the workouts for something run steady at marathon pace or faster than easy pace for 6 - 8 miles.  Everything else was run at easy pace and I did not run longer than 12 miles often during a speed training period which was typically 12 weeks.

                 

                Obviously, there are many ways to train so this is not an absolute. I've never trained using heart rate data but there are people who swear by it so I'm sure it's a viable alternative. Ultimately, you have to find what works for you, but there is certainly more than one way to attain one's goals. I think the first step is actually wanting to try a particular method. Because if you're already against it in your head, you will most likely find a way to make it fail.

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