Forums >General Running>Daniels VO2 max based paces - stupid question
In the movie A Fish Called Wanda, Jamie Lee Curtis says to Kevin Kline something like "Yes, monkeys DO read philosphy, they just don't understand it."
I think with Daniels Runing Formula I'm the monkey. I think I get the concepts, but the details lose me.
My current question is this: in the section describing various training paces, Daniels describes how much you should do of each one, but the numbers don't work for me when I try to figure out how much of each to run for my total amount of weekly running (approx 280 minutes/36 miles). He says
Easy Pace - lesser of 25% weekly milage or 150 min
Marathon Pace - lesser of 90 min or 16 miles
Threshold Pace - lesser of 10% weekly milage or 60 min
Interval Pace - 8% weekly milage
Repetition Pace - 5% weekly milage
If I run the lesser of 25% or 150 min at Easy, that gives me 25%*36 miles = 9 miles, which is less than 150 minutes.
M pace: 90 min at Marathon pace gets me about 12.55 miles, which is less than 16 miles.
Threshold pace: 10% of 36 gets me 3.6 miles
I pace: 8% of 36 gets me 2.88 miles
R pace: 5% of 36 gets me 1.8 miles.
All together, I'm at 29.83 miles. What pace do I do my other 6 miles at?
1. When in doubt with Daniels, make up the gap with EASY miles. Only do the harder stuff as part of his quality workouts. So do the rest easy.
2. Note that in general, Daniels is built for higher mileage runners. The percentages and stuff, especially for half and full training, make a lot more sense for me at 80 miles than it might at 30-40.
Don't feel badly... Daniels is a hard read and he needs a better editor. The important details are scattered and some stuff is barely stated at all. I've read that book a number of times and I *still* find something I missed when I re-read a section.
I am currently in week 18 (out of 24) of his marathon training A-plan. And, wouldn't you know it, there's a key detail about strides that isn't physically in the plan's table... it's a footnote AFTER week 24. So I'm towards the end of the plan and I just ooopsed into a major detail. DAMMIT.
Good luck.
1. When in doubt with Daniels, make up the gap with EASY miles.
This is a pretty good rule of thumb in general, not just with Daniels.
Runners run
I think that you posted a similar question on the RW forums. I commented there, but will repeat it here in case you aren't the same person.
It sounds like you might be misinterpreting Daniels' guidelines in three ways: ---You don't train in each zone each week. Most weeks should include training in no more than 2 or 3 zones (E zone plus 1 or 2 others....a optional MP workout would be additional). ---The sum of the weekly limits that he suggests for each training zone should not equal total weekly mileage. ---The limit that you listed for the E training zone (25% of weekly mileage or 150 minutes) is a suggested limit for the weekly long run, not for total weekly E zone mileage. Thus, for example, applying his guidelines, a 36-mile week might include:
Similarly, other weeks can be similarly structured with combinations of 2-3 T, I, R or M workouts with all other mileage in the E zone.
Overall, aerobic conditioning mileage, which includes M pace mileage, should comprise at least 80% of total weekly mileage with the rest spread among combinations of T, I and R intensities.
I also agree with Stevie Ray's comment that Daniels programs are primarily aimed at advanced, high mileage marathoners. For instance, his long run mileage limit of the lesser of 25% of weekly mileage or 150 minutes would limit a 4-hour marathoner averaging 40 mpw and peaking at 50 miles to a maximum long run of 12.5 miles. That's clearly inadequate for marathon prep.